Posts by Inquisitor

21

I Need Help!

by Morocco in

hi, i'm new to this forum and i was hoping someone could help me with some reasoning here.

i notice in the watchtowers they mention that on occasion people fall into the "trap" of "independent thinking" and this is often associated with pride and a misunderstanding of god.

also just as frequently it mentions that god progressively reveals truths to his followers.

Inquisitor

With regards to the New Light doctrine, JWs often draw this comparison between themselves and the unfulfilled expectations of the 1st century apostles.

Is this comparison accurate? The following is a post of mine from an old thread (Why do JW's elders act like their failed predictions is no big deal?) :

WTS predictions were in black and white, clear for all of "God's household" to see. Then the rank and file of the time were often shown the method of calculating such dates, expected to incorporate such dates into their belief system, and to make serious changes in their lives in light of the impending end.
By contrast, all a JW can scripturally point to is the fact that the apostles in Jesus' day either had preconceived notions of God's plan
"11 While they were listening to these things he spoke in addition an illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly" - Luke 19:11
"6 When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" 7 He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction" - Acts1:6,7
or were aware that their knowledge was incomplete
"9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; 10 but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with." - 1 Corinthians 13:9,10
UNLIKE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, the apostles didn't write Gospels or letters to publish such tentative ideas and pass them off as divine secrets. The record shows that the only time their ideas were verbalized was to their Teacher, the purpose of which was to confirm, not inform. Consequently they also did not have to write new Gospels or letters to explain the errors in their "expectations". No apostle had to excuse his backflip by sheepishly quoting Proverbs 4:18, using terms like "new light " and "old light". As far as they were concerned, you were either in the light, or you're in the dark.

Hope this helps. Welcome to the forum, Morocco! INQ

7

Does God bless "Non JW's" as well?

by JH in

my sister phoned my mother yesterday and she was all happy that her son found a good job.

and since she belongs to another religion, she said "god blessed us".

so, in my jw mind, i said to myself, "nah, it can't be".

I know of some JWs who would tell you, without a blink of an eye, that Satan must have been dishing out these so-called "blessings" to make faithful JWs doubt Jehovah's loyalty to his organization and to give the unbelievers a false hope. Only blessings with a WTS stamp of approval can come from God. Didn't you know that God is the copyright of the WTS Inc?

INQ

61

Were YOU Depressed When You Were A Witness?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i've seen soooo many witnesses taking meds or alcohol because of unhappiness and depression.

i know of one woman who regularly gos to her shrink and is the most depressed person that i know of.

personally, i believe it's because a jw can never do enough to satisfy god or the elders....what do you think?

Inquisitor

There was a period in my life where I was chronically depressed. I wasn't born with it cos I was a happy kid when I was younger. But in my teens, it ws bad. It wasn't your typical teenage angst though I suspect that the phase did contribute to my misery. I would have no appetite, didn't want to go out, didn't want to watch TV, cry a lot, hurt myself physically, contemplate suicide. While I cannot blame everything on my JW upbringing, I CAN AND WILL BLAME THEM FOR THEIR demonization of the world.

"Everyone on the "outside" is not good company."

"Reading the Bible brings you Happiness"

"Fellowship with God's household is wholesome" (It wasn't. If you've ever been in a congregation with arrogant elders and power hungry young men you might know what I mean. It never ceases to amaze me how the power of God's Word cannot compel these ones to change.)

"We must not shy away from being DIFFERENT in this world"

The last message was particularly damaging to my ability to socialise and interact with other youths at school. I would never curse, express disgust at obscene jokes, feign disinterest in sex, reject well-meaning peers (non-JWs) who tried to be my friend ("they're not good company, no point getting close to them"), take pride in the derision I suffered from my peers for being different. I was a martyr, product of the pharisaical self-righteousness of the bloody old men of the Watchtower, but more significantly, I wasn't happy.

How could one be happy when he constantly defies his true nature?

Now that I'm away from my home cong and I do what I want, when I want, I am beginning to see that life is truly enjoyable if you choose to make it that way. You needn't postpone such simple pleasures for a future Paradise that will never come in your lifetime, if ever.

INQ

4

college questions.

by jaada in

hello everyone, i was wondering it has been along time since i have been to the jw hall and when i was going they would give me a guilt trip about going to college and tell me that i shouldn't waste time on that and instead learn how to go door to door.

i wasted 11 years not going to college because of them and i just went back 3 years ago.

i still have 4 more years to go.

Inquisitor

however i have seen that the witnesses have doctors and lawyers too so they have to go to college to get there so how can they say this about others going to college?

The JWs I personally know who have professional careers, have in most cases obtained their degree BEFORE becoming a Witness. Some were already in their last year of uni when Jehovah's agents came visiting.

On the other hand, JW's who are contemplating uni will often be persuaded to do otherwise. I was. Those who are already at uni, have to put up with the bias reporting of what goes on at uni, with dramas and talks that insinuate a lack of spirituality in those who choose the "wisdom" and "wealth" of this world. I do.

If you feel that college is not for you, by all means quit. But do it for the right reasons. Do not be a victim of other people's anti-intellectualism.

Welcome to JWD, jaada.

INQ

4

Why baptise young ones?

by dobbie in

just had two months worth of mags shoved through my door(thank goodness i wasn't in but out with kids having fun!

)had a flick through them but what caught my attention was the july 1st watchtower 2nd study article "youths, make it your choice to serve jehovah".

it seems to be basically encouraging all the young ones to get baptised, and mentions one boy who was only thirteen!i was'nt born into the jws but i know that in my early teen years i would personally never have been emotionally ready for such a major commitment.

Inquisitor

Answering your question from the Org's perspective, I'm sure JWs wouldn't hesitate to point to the examples of young Samuel (the prophet) or 12-year-old Jesus to insist that even young teens can serve Jehovah with a "sound mind". And so if they are ready to serve at that age, they can ~~enslav~~ dedicate themselves to do ~~Org's~~ God's bidding.

Never forget that a fundie's first line of defense is scripture. In their minds, the literal interpretation of scripture trumps all.

INQ

37

WTS NO HIGHER EDUCATION dumb dub

by DannyHaszard in

high cierra: teen scores best-ever ib mark at bhs

royal gazette, bermuda - 4 hours ago .

... cierra, a jehovahs witness who was named the islands outstanding teen 2006 earlier this year, does not intend to go to university but will instead carry ...

Inquisitor

Hey Shazard

I wouldn't be so harsh about the quality of those tests. lol

I think people can be (unconsciously) selective in exercising their thinking abilities. Have you ever acted like a fool in front of a crush? I think it's the same principle. Where emotions are involved (e.g. religious fervor), logic is held in suspension. The good news though is that she is a bright spark. Often, bright sparks will eventually be conflicted by the inconsistencies of their faith; or stumped by the intelligence of a redneck elder!

Give her time. She may join us here one day!

INQ

11

What Bible do you like?

by Tristram in

having read nothing but the nwt all my life, i am interested in getting a couple other translations to see their interpretations of the scriptures.

i really don't have any idea where to start.

i have heard the niv has a distinctly "conservative evangelical" bent which doesn't really interest me, but what translations have you used that you like?

Inquisitor

Tristram

One thing I learnt about the NIV is the way it attempted to white-wash an apparent Biblical discrepancy. This had to do with the clash between the understanding of Genesis 1:20-23 with Genesis 2:19. NIV appeared to have made a grammatical error deliberately as it was the only convenient way to smooth the wrinkle in the faith. This was discussed in a previous thread - Why so many versions of Genesis 2:19?

That is a perfect example of murdering truth in pursuit of the evangelical agenda. While I do not agree with a free-for-all liberal interpretation/translation of the Scriptures (e.g. the neutralizing/feminizing of pronouns in relation to God), I am equally disgusted by the conservatives who think they know best because their approach is proudly conservative and who employ over-generalisations, mockery and name-calling. You'll often find that while they excel in their presumptious airs, they often fail in making a logical case for their beliefs. If you have ever been a JW, you should already know this.

Having said that however, I must add that I still use the NIV just to compare its translation with those of other Bibles, esp the NWT. NIV isn't perfect, but it isn't useless either.

Regards,

INQ

21

Did You Know Elder & M.S. Wannabees?

by minimus in

jw
friends

weren't they sickening??

always trying to curry favor with the elders and circuit overseers.

most of those that could never quite make the grade couldn't for a reason.

Inquisitor

fullofdoubtnow

I think it's just swell how the cong benefits from the eager beavers' efforts. "hall cleaning, keeping the kh car park tidy"

Bro. BumKiss was more conniving. He wouldn't sully his hands with menial jobs. That means no washing of toilets, no volunteering for pre-cleaning of assembly hall. Also he wouldn't touch jobs that cannot be performed in full view of the cong. So no parking attendant duties, no cong accounts (he did it once for experience, but didn't remain accounts servant which was good for the cong cos when he was in charge we kept running in the red!! we suspected incompetence instead of dishonesty).

BumKiss and his siblings loved carrying the microphones, lived for anything that could be performed on stage, giving comments that induced barfing and socialising with all the right people (complimenting speakers) immediately after meetings/assemblies (duties take second priority).

INQ

21

Did You Know Elder & M.S. Wannabees?

by minimus in

jw
friends

weren't they sickening??

always trying to curry favor with the elders and circuit overseers.

most of those that could never quite make the grade couldn't for a reason.

Inquisitor

Oh YEAAH! There was one very vocal, very obvious, bum-smooching bro in a cong who once wasted no time giving comments during this Watchtower study some years back. We were considering one of those "appreciating your shepherds" article and it made some point about elders deserving double honor. Bro. BumKiss just had to add to those paragraphs, blurting in this pseudo-naive, ultra-humble voice, saying that elders deserved "not just double honor but three-fold and four-fold honor" for all the sacrifices in teaching and shepherding the congregation.

Bro. BumKiss was quite a character.

INQ

9

If the Watchtower was a brand new religion that didn't deceive yet....

by JH in

.

lets imagine that the watchtower was a brand new religion that just started.. and up to now, they didn't make any false prophesy yet, and they would be preaching that the end is soon and they would have the same life style and internal laws.. in other words, their past wouldn't be there to haunt them.. do you think that more people would join it?

Inquisitor

First of all, you need to frame some parameters, set some controls. Did you mean to ask if there would be more converts if a Russell appeared today in Pennsylvania and preached the same Gospel as the 19th Century Russell? Would he be using those loudspeakers, placards and photodramas? Or would he be using the latest technology to captivate his audience? Would the founders be using the same fiery condemnations towards Christendom or would they adopt the sneaky "oh it's a conscience matter, but we know what God's opinion on this matter is because....". How much is brand new? How much is old?

INQ