Spook

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Posts by Spook

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  38

  Is Intelligent Design self-refuting ?

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  some critics (here) of intelligent design theories claim that it is "self-refuting" to invoke design and / or complexity, as evidence for an intelligent designer explanation for things such as the origin of life, other complex biological structures, etc.

  since this claim comes up somewhat frequently, i thought it should be given its own thread.

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  Spook

  What really broke this discussion open for me in letting go of my metaphysical superstitions was the factst that:

  1. All the components necessary for evolution to occur can be proven conclusively to exist and occur in nature. (reproduction, mutation, selection etc.). There would be no reason to expect these to exist if creation had occured and evolution were made up.

  2. None of the necessary components for creation to occur can be proved to exist. (No creator, no observable act of creation.). There would be every reason to believe these can not be proved to exist if evolution were true and creation were made up.

  The endless nitpicking and "yeah-but" over the secondary literature confuses many. I recommend reading the primary literature. And if you don't understand it, take some community college courses in evolutionary biology. If you aren't willing to do that, then at least stop thinking there is some conspiracy or sweeping ignorance in the international community of Scientists.
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  11

  More Gilead class gems...

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following with more snippets of e-mails from a current gileadite, who updates his friends & faimily with clumps of spiritual enlightenment from time to time.. today's installment from the altar of higher education...er no wait, this education isn't so high...er something like that.... ...in malachi the priests were not instructing properly, allowing all sorts .

  of lame offerings and allowing jewish men to divorce without valid reason .

  and then complaining to jehovah about the consequences.

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  Spook

  One of many reasons not to uphold a semitic mythology full of fantastical rants, class oppression, and social attrocities as being a literally true guide for life.
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  151

  The Star Spangled Banner

  by rebel8 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,.

  what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?.

  whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight;.

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  Spook

  U/D

  You had some good observations. If the US doesn't lose the chauvenism before it too is humbled, we'll be in for whole lot of trouble.

  As for the EU, yes. The nations are still Imperialistic and many want a piece of the pie. The idea of being THE big dog...I don't know, I see many of them as being beyond that. If you really are interested in engaging that discussion, start a thread and I'll join. That's a very complicated issue, however, so I'll satisfy myself by simply supplying the rejoinder that it's not so simple as that. I do see an increased understanding in Europe, due largely from the extreme population crunch and close quarters, that the world must have a high level of cooperation with no rogue states or highly imbalanced international powers if anyone is to endure. Also there is an increased focus on social issues in EU democracy, U.S. and South Africa being the only modernized lands where a form of social health care is not in place, for example.

  You had a few sweeping comments that I'll leave unadressed, and I also fail to see how I underestimated the "average joe" in my comments.

  Your closing remarks, I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm a revolutionary.

  As a close, I'd put forward that the "support our troops" campaign is yet another aspect of the chauvenism issue. It obscures dealing with the material basis of the conflict, and extrapolates the argument away from resolution. It's no better than saying "support our terrorists," since one could value them as sacrificing for their beliefs even if you didn't agree. The actions and the agents can not be separated.
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  151

  The Star Spangled Banner

  by rebel8 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,.

  what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?.

  whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight;.

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  Spook

  There is an American chauvenism about our activities that infuriates much of the world. In general, European nations are more down to earth about the role their nation has, and has had historically, in world events.

  Chauvenism is a more appropriate accusation than cultism, since there isn't the same authority structure, but is a cultural thing. The two are closely related.

  (chauvenism in general being a bias towards a group of which you are a part, best demonstrated in "my country right or wrong.")
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  54

  Death of innocent people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  again we have been witnessing a hideous, horrible act of terrorism where cowards and maniacs have blown up innocent people.

  it is thoroughly distressing and revolting.

  being a bit cynical about it this it is in all probability a payback to britain for blairs staunch support to george bush.

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  Spook

  And another thing...

  Why is there no existing outcry against making the war a "war on terror." Why is the regime not being held accountable to define terrorism so that we the people can decide if that is or is not the case when warfare is being conducted in our name.

  "Enemies of freedom" is not a definition of a terrorist. That is a disingenious ploy to avoid the issues. Terrorism is the unlawful use of force to promote the will to an agenda. Whose laws will we agree on to define this? Our own? Well then, we have created a self-righteous tautology of a war.

  If we make a world where suffering is institutionalized, where that is permitted, where pain and privation mar half of the inflated population, there will be no end to war. The world will rise up. It doesn't matter how many guns or bombs or battleships you have. It doesn't matter how high your walls are or how swords or catapults or whatever you have. Fire will fill the night, and the streets will run with blood. Humanism can not be ground in the gears of production and consumption. Freedom cannot stand tall on the backs of the broken and trampled masses.
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  54

  Death of innocent people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  again we have been witnessing a hideous, horrible act of terrorism where cowards and maniacs have blown up innocent people.

  it is thoroughly distressing and revolting.

  being a bit cynical about it this it is in all probability a payback to britain for blairs staunch support to george bush.

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  Spook

  It's about as easy for a nation to admit a history of brutal oppression as it is for a religion to admit that they are wrong.

  Anyone who is willing to say "America has done wrong" is instantly crucified by the national ego. Globalization and nationalism cannot coexist.
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  75

  The first time I've been "down" b/c of JWD...

  by upside/down in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've had good and bad days since stumbing onto jwd... and i've learned more in my short time here than in the last 20 years as an "active" and true to the bone...dub.... but today (tonight) i'm really sad... the tone of almost every thread i read has gotten "ugly".... i love "spirited" discussion, but this is different.

  it feels like forum anarchy.. is there no yielding anymore...?.

  maybe it was just too much happened today... or solar flares or something... i don't know...don't care.... maybe my new found "love" for my country (not the blind patriotic crap) and life coupled with the obvious animosity toward this love by some...well just bums me out.

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  Spook

  Big dog,

  People can debate without being angry. I distinguish being straight and confrontational, not equivocating or dissembling and being political, with being condemnatory. Information that challenges a world view is usually received as oppostion.

  Another item to consider from written discourse is that it is really arbitrary to have conceptions about the poster's emotions. The misunderstanding of written tone occurs when readers infer a voice and persona to the dialogue, largely based on a response to information.

  And again, there is the real issue to deal with that polite discourse drags on in the world until opportunities for action are lost.
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  39

  The World Can't Wait, DRIVE OUT THE BUSH REGIME!

  by Spook in

  1. social
  2. current

  want this regime to be stopped.. .

  the world cant wait!

  november 2!.

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  Spook

  And I say again, last time I checked we're the ones who have used WMD's.
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  38

  Is Intelligent Design self-refuting ?

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  some critics (here) of intelligent design theories claim that it is "self-refuting" to invoke design and / or complexity, as evidence for an intelligent designer explanation for things such as the origin of life, other complex biological structures, etc.

  since this claim comes up somewhat frequently, i thought it should be given its own thread.

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  Spook

  Great post Tetrapod!
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  75

  The first time I've been "down" b/c of JWD...

  by upside/down in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've had good and bad days since stumbing onto jwd... and i've learned more in my short time here than in the last 20 years as an "active" and true to the bone...dub.... but today (tonight) i'm really sad... the tone of almost every thread i read has gotten "ugly".... i love "spirited" discussion, but this is different.

  it feels like forum anarchy.. is there no yielding anymore...?.

  maybe it was just too much happened today... or solar flares or something... i don't know...don't care.... maybe my new found "love" for my country (not the blind patriotic crap) and life coupled with the obvious animosity toward this love by some...well just bums me out.

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  Spook

  I do feel for you U/D, and I take responsibility for what ways I am involved in that. There is a contradiction to deal with in life in that it seems that some people believe that things can be salvaged without anyone getting their feelings hurt. I'd like to see major change without major violence, but even that sadly seems unlikely. Certainly much conflict of at least ideas lies in humanities near future.

  Now, this board could be a place where those issues are not brought, but an interesting note is that societies tend to start filling with things like that to avoid having to deal with reality. Don't bring issues to work, don't bring issues to church, don't bring issues to social events, discussions, etc. And society gets more distanced from what's going on, until everyone besides the existing power structure is disempowered by only having a very small group of like-minded and isolated people involved in the discussion.

  There is no thread that we are forced to participate in. What is it that brings people to seek out being angered and offended?