Posts by diamondblue1974

64

The end of marriage?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

from a piece in a london publication:.

the proportion of men and women getting married is below any level found since figures were first kept nearly 150 years ago.. and the number of weddings held in 2006 was the smallest since 1895, when the population was little more than half its present level.. the evidence that marriage is withering away at an increasing pace was met with a furious response from critics of labour's benefits system, which disregards the status of husbands and wives and pays parents extra to stay single.

the causes of the collapse of marriage range from the rise in the western world of a highly individualistic ethic, to a profound shift in moral and religious attitudes, to the sexual revolution, to the widespread use of abortion and the pill, to changes in law, among other things.

diamondblue1974

What I did say that men are reticient to marry because women these days will leave them on trivialities and they have much more to lose legally.

This smacks at best of a sweeping over generalisation but far worse, a rather jaundiced view of women. For the record men have always had the upper hand societally and women far more disadvantaged upon the breakup of a relationship. They predominantly carry the responsibility of child care without the male partner/husbands input and also carry the sole financial responsibility too.

Also, since a great many women are giving it up faster than a goat in heat, this is a disincentive as well.

This supports the point that you appear to have a rather jaundiced view of women and have somehow allowed yourself to objectify them somewhat. What you fail to mark is the fact that men since the dawn of existence have been able to sow their wild oats and to some extent it has been accepted that this is just what men do. It is true that women are today more sexually liberated and thats no bad thing - its not to say that promiscuity should be condoned but there should be a sense of equality in the bed as there is elsewhere.

Secondly, you seem to imply by your comment that because women 'are giving it up faster than a goat on heat' it is a disincentive for men to get married. You seem to imply that men have most of if not all the options when it comes to marriage choices. In might have skipped your notice but fewer women are choosing not to marry also - have you addressed why this might be?

Perhaps you should consider the fact that society overall is choosing other alternatives for reasons no doubt linked to the fact that marriage these days has very little to do with relationships and love.

Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

Again just another example of your rather jaundiced view of women and sex in general.

Gary

25

simple question about popularity

by dippydo in

jw
friends

hi everyone, this is only my second post under this name but i'm not actually new, just couldnt remember my password under my other name as havnt been on the board for a very long time, hey i've even had a bible study in the time i've been away.. anyway, my question is, do you think their is a pecking order within the congregation,not so much overseer, elder, common publisher etc, more as in, one particular family being popular, everyone sucking up to them, them looking down their noses at the meer mortals who perhaps cant afford to pioneer or live in a palace, etc etc..

diamondblue1974

There re bullies. victims and gameplayers - as with any group in any schoolyard anyplace!

Indeed! You got that right.

Gary

25

simple question about popularity

by dippydo in

jw
friends

hi everyone, this is only my second post under this name but i'm not actually new, just couldnt remember my password under my other name as havnt been on the board for a very long time, hey i've even had a bible study in the time i've been away.. anyway, my question is, do you think their is a pecking order within the congregation,not so much overseer, elder, common publisher etc, more as in, one particular family being popular, everyone sucking up to them, them looking down their noses at the meer mortals who perhaps cant afford to pioneer or live in a palace, etc etc..

diamondblue1974

Ohhh I forgot - this is slightly less tongue in cheek but actually true (as was the above).

(NEW FAMILY WITH SKELETONS) There is also a new family that has moved into the hall from another congregation (nobody knows why given they live outside the territory and have not moved house). The family keep themselves to themselves and seem to be welcomed into the congregation with open arms. After all they appear really spiritual. What everyone doesnt realise is that their then 19 year old son was caught molesting a 4 year old in their old congregation and needed to be moved on without any other warning to the incumbent congregation. The 4 year olds mother was encouraged to drop the charges so that she didnt bring reproach on Jehovahs name.

(OLDER SISTER AND TWISTED ASSOCIATED FAMILY) A lovely elderly sister who had an opposing husband who was abusive not only to her but to his daughters. He sexually abused each one of his daughers but one in particular got pregnant and he now has a daughter who calls him Grandad! When he became infirm and incapable of knocking his wife (elderly sister) about and needed care he refused to go into a home and he surprisingly changed his ways and agreed to start a study with the witnesses. He was later baptised (with great fanfare because he had to be baptised in his wheelchair). Nobody however was told that he was a paedophile and of course the group study and other field ministry meetings were held in his house.

(NEVER MIND NO PART OF THIS WORLD, THE NOT ON THIS PLANET FAMILY) This family has no social skills and no ability to really interact on any normal level. Despite being 30 years old they dress in 1940s charity shop clothes and rarely wash their hair. They are regularly out on the ministry and their lives are entrenched with the Watchtower society at the deepest levels of their psyche. When they invite people round from the congregation they play party games that everyone finds embarassing because they are just too childlike for words. They rejoice in the fact that billions will be destroyed by jehovah and regularly speculate with amazing off the wall theories about when the end will come. (One of these speculations embarassingly involved an observation that because there were so many more starlings and blackbirds around, this was because jehovah is planning to create birdfood out of worldly people very soon.)

Sad but true....

Gary

25

simple question about popularity

by dippydo in

jw
friends

hi everyone, this is only my second post under this name but i'm not actually new, just couldnt remember my password under my other name as havnt been on the board for a very long time, hey i've even had a bible study in the time i've been away.. anyway, my question is, do you think their is a pecking order within the congregation,not so much overseer, elder, common publisher etc, more as in, one particular family being popular, everyone sucking up to them, them looking down their noses at the meer mortals who perhaps cant afford to pioneer or live in a palace, etc etc..

diamondblue1974

Yes there is always the 'in crowd' within congregations and it usually seems that the single parent families or those within a 'divided household' are looked down upon significantly.

Within congregations there is usually the following characters and groups of characters.

(STEPFORD FAMILY OR WISH THEY WERE) The stereotypical super wonderful family with elder husband and loyal submissive wife plus the kids who are usually well behaved at the meetings however the reality is that the teenage son or daughter is living a 'double life' and is secretly daring to enjoy their adolescent years.

(A MORE BALANCED JW FAMILY) Similar family to the above but more affluent with non elder husband who has sent their kids to private school and their 19 year old son being put through university. No real controversial behaviour (that anyone knows about) but the family are looked down upon because not only does the elder husband and wife work for a living (heaven forbid) but they also have intelligent children who are being taught to exist in society rather than pushing them in the direction of door knocking for the forseeable future. Secretly the congregation are jealous.

(SINGLE PARENT FAMILY) Single parent family with just one daughter/son - desperately trying to fit in with the in crowd but who is usually the last to be invited to social events because everyone tends to forget about her. When she/he pushes themselves forward socially and approaches a group of other youngsters the animated conversation that was taking place stops dead in its tracks and soon enough he/she makes a quick getaway to where there isnt a hostile or unfriendly atmosphere. Single parent also is the last to be invited out anywhere socially but is often invited to go on field service as a token gesture. Looked down upon primarily because she has not got a man to ~~give~~ be her head.

(SINGLETON) Single man never been married (probably still lives with his mother) and about 40 years old. Known predominantly as a sex pest within the congregation and would simply marry just anyone who would have him. He usually turns up at peoples houses uninvited at meal times in the hope that they will feel pressurised into inviting him to stay. Within such peoples houses there is usually a daughter who is not yet married. Rumour has it that he is sniffing round in the hope that she notices his keen psuedo spirituality and will ignore the fact that he looks like the back end of a bus. Generally avoided by the majority.

(DIVIDED HOUSEHOLD) Young woman who has a husband who does not believe nor does he attend the memorial (in fact he cant stand JWs for some reason related to what he has read on the internet - nobody is sure what is meant by this because nobody is allowed to log onto the internet and google JWs). She is looked down upon as a lower human being because she has no man to be her spiritual head although she does or did (unlike single parent mentioned above) have a healthy relationship with her husband. Despite this however she feels torn because hes going to die at Armageddon. As times goes by the rift between them becomes wider and wider primarily because of watchtower indoctrination.

(THE BAD LOT) Family with disfellowshipped husband and two good looking teenage sons with both sons very popular with the other teenage daughters in the hall and drive souped up cars (which are not that cool really). Both teenage sons secretly have been making their way through the kingdom violating the alleged virginity of any young woman they can get their hands on as well as a few outside the witnesses as well. Both sons appear to be spending a lot of time talking to elders in the kingdom hall library and the gossip is that one of the sons will be becoming a dad in the next 7 months!

(SUPER DOOPER STEPFORD FAMILY OR WISH THEY WERE) Family with elder husband and loyal submissive wife with two somewhat spectacularly looking young sons who both are pioneers and ministerial servants in the hall. They clean windows for a living with their dad and wouldnt know what the real job market was like at all. ALL the sisters in the hall hope to be married at some point to one of these lads (any one of them will do) and they ensure that they are invited to social events (like the usual barn dances and elder sponsored and attended bowling trips). What everyone doesnt know and wouldnt dream of is that elder husband whilst he was ministerial servant secretly had an affair with the wife of the stepford family mentioned above....SHHH nobody knows of course but isnt it surprising that the son in the stepford family mentioned above looks an awful lot like him? NAH...cant be!

Just a tongue in cheek insight into the congregations of Jehovahs Witnesses.

Gary

41

i'm being attacked from all angles

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

think my family friends have been in ca hootes!!

i been doing great for this past year, but made mistake of going memorial.

and now being hit from all angles.

diamondblue1974

How the hell does 'a study' help rebuild your spirituality?? Its purely a way of reindoctrinated you and humiliating you into submitting to their control again.

As much as you love your dad you are not responsible for any of his illnesses and nor are you responsible for your families feelings. They will never be satisfied with any effort you make and you need to make a clean break from their influence.

Why dont you lay down some ground rules for once - make it a condition that you do not discuss the witnesses or anything related to it when you/they visit?

Grow a pair and stop pandering to their emotional blackmail!

G :o)

19

what a sad easter....my uncle passed away....

by FreedomFrog in

jw
friends

i just heard the news this morning.

i'm a bit numb from it.

he was the one that got the reunions together.

diamondblue1974

I am sorry for your loss.

Its ludicrous that your family will miss out on saying their goodbyes and that part of the grieving process just because of the venue in which it is to be held. Another example of the cult mind control. I suppose in that respect they know no different.

At least you will be able to say your goodbyes.

Gary /|\

122

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

by Tuesday in

lovely lil started a thread that said it had external evidence of jesus' which i think proved rather useless and ultimately ended in debate about god's existence.

she said she wanted to start another thread about proof that god exists so i figured i would.

so this thread would be for actual proof of god.

diamondblue1974

External, Observable, Verifiable Evidence Of God...

Which God? Are we merely referring to a male God or is this discussion to include external, observable, verifiable evidence of divinity as a whole?

Why does this debate always relate to the judaeo-christian God?

Gary

383

Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

by reniaa in

i've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!

i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.

they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".

diamondblue1974

Congrats once again on fatherhood, Gary.
Good to hear from you.

Thanks fella - long time no speak, its been a while.

Dawn is well and now has a little bump - time is flying by.

Gary

383

Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

by reniaa in

i've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!

i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.

they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".

diamondblue1974

NVR - nice to see you are on good form.

DB74

PS: Sirona and I live together and you will note that we have the same scrambled IP

30

No Bible = No God ???

by Sirona in

jw
friends

something has gotten on my nerves a bit recently.

there are numerous discussions regarding the validity of the bible which usually result in the following:.

* an exjw who has doubts about the bible concludes there is no god .

diamondblue1974

What I see in the natural world are bottom up systems of interconnection and cooperation among living things. Instead of gods who made things "just so", I see plants and animals that evolved together over millions of years into a variety of complex ecosystems that exist today.

This really does depend on a persons view of the divine. Your perspective largely is based on a severely limited concept of God/Divinity being distinctly seperate and omnipotent. I dont see Divinity that way at all and I also believe in evolution.

My own concept not unlike most Druids is that divinity is not seperate and that we are all interconnected and operate symbiotically.

There are very few if any hierarchical structures within pagan spiritualities and religions which would appear to solve the problems you describe within many Judaeo Christian religions.

Gary