slimboyfat

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Posts by slimboyfat

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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  slimboyfat

  The number of baptisms has declined significantly as a percentage of members since the mid 1990s. The growth rate has declined significantly during this period as well. This is different than a decline in membership.

  You can easily tell when JWs begin declining overall because the it’s when the number of members gets smaller year on year. So far this hasn’t happened apart from one year following 1975 and one year during the pandemic.

  I very much agree that the number of congregations is a crucial statistic and there has indeed been a small decline in the number of congregations in recent years. It will be interesting to see if that continues. The number of publishers has also shown a decrease in Latin America in the past few years. JWs didn’t seem to bounce back in Latin America after the pandemic as they did elsewhere. It will be interesting to see what happens here too.

  In contrast with JWs, most Protestant denominations are in steep decline in most western countries: not simply slow growth or few baptisms/converts, but actual, rapid decline in membership.
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  3150

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  He needs to fall somewhat below 387 to match his lowest level last year because that was before he added paid YouTube supporters (or whatever you call them) that he claimed amounted to 100 at one point. If it’s down to around 50 by now, as they were new supporters who perhaps dropped off at a quicker rate, then he’d need to fall below around 840 to match his lowest level last year.

  The level of support he’s got at the moment must create huge indecision for him. It’s a lot of free money to simply walk away from, at the same time it’s galling for him that he enjoyed support from 900 patrons barely two years ago, and now has to cut his cloth each month on a level half that, and declining. He’ll probably ride it all the way down to 100s doing as little as he can along the way, and mess around wondering what to do next. Maybe he’ll become a vocal proponent of universal basic income.
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  slimboyfat

  There’s a difference between lower baptism numbers (true) and decline in membership (not happened yet).

  I agree with Phizzy that the criteria for DFing may change. Unofficially, it already has in my observation, because DFing is nowhere near as common now as it used to be. Back in the 80s and 90s it was a fairly regular occurrence, as was reinstatement. These days it hardly ever seems to happen. Why is that? Maybe people have got more savvy about avoiding getting DFed because of online advice and support. Maybe elders have become more reluctant to resort DFing for various reasons: aware that it looks bad to outsiders, don’t believe in it themselves. I think it’s a combination of these factors.
• 
  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  slimboyfat

  the numbers continue to decline …

  They have to begin declining before they can continue declining. Unlike the vast majority of churches JWs are holding their own in western countries and continuing to grow in many others. They suffered one year of decline during the pandemic, under 1%, and quickly recovered. Other churches lost huge numbers of members in the UK during the pandemic. Attendance at the Church of England is down by 20% and this may actually turn out to be an underestimate. The Church of Scotland needs to close hundreds of churches in the next few years to cope with the decline.

  I have argued in the past that the Internet is a net benefit for WT in terms of dealing with dissidents. In the past when people discovered “it’s not the truth” there was not the easy option of joining a like minded group of people online. Instead they took their issues to their families and friends in the congregation to have it out. This was majorly disruptive in some cases, such as in Calgary where reportedly over 100 JWs left the organisation in the fallout from Jim Penton’s defection. These days that doesn’t happen because people choose to leave quietly instead, make contacts with other ex members, and don’t cause all that much trouble in their congregations.
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  slimboyfat

  It might be in their interests to change, but that doesn’t mean they’ll do it. People can act against their interests all the time, especially when religious belief is in the mix.

  Take a look at the history of the Catholic Apostolic Church. They were a group in the nineteenth century who believed the second coming was imminent and appointed a new set of apostles accordingly. Priests in the religion could only be appointed by those apostles. It was a fairly successful religious movement, but the years wore on and some of the apostles died. What would they do? They couldn’t appoint new apostles according to their dogma, so they carried on with the remaining apostles. More of the apostles died until there were few left. Surely they would revise the dogma now. No, they carried on until there were no apostles left. Because there were no apostles left, no new priests could be appointed. In turn, the priests became fewer and fewer in number. Surely they would change the dogma now, either appoint new apostles, or else change the rule that only apostles could appoint priests. No, they wouldn’t do it. The final priests died in the 20th century, the membership declined and churches closed. It was successful movement in the nineteenth century with many wealthy members and, despite its membership drying up completely, a legacy fund and trustees maintain their former church in London. The church building is now used by other groups. The building is testimony to a religion that died out rather than alter its dogma.
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  3150

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  what if he really was sorry and dropped the stupid lawsuit and then mag 7 said they accepted his apology and everyone moved on.

  If that ever happens come back and talk. It won’t. It’s not in him. He sincerely believes he has done nothing wrong and that other people have treated him badly. He lacks empathy and self-awareness to an extent that is difficult for any normal person to gasp. Just because we would feel guilt or shame in his situation doesn’t mean he feels the same. He clearly doesn't, if you listen to what he actually says and does.

  He is obviously hurting and he must feel trapped now having alienated half the ex JW community.

  Self-pity is not the same as hurt. He is not hurting because let down his wife or children or anyone else. He doesn’t care about that in the slightest. He’s just angry that people stopped him getting all the attention and money he thinks he deserves. He has displayed his self-pity, anger and desire for revenge numerous times, hurt or remorse not once.
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  32

  55 Year Cycle shows up in March 2024 Watchtower

  by was a new boy in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  did they hope that everybody who read the1969 awake as a kid is too senile to remember?.

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  slimboyfat

  Except it’s not a repeat, is it? Because the latest Watchtower comments don’t repeat the bold assertion that young people will not grow up in this system of things. They have tamed down their rhetoric and have learned from experience not to be too specific about timeframes.
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  33

  Further education

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just saw on a video that there has been a change about further education.

  here is a screenshot of a letter that went to all elders.

  i am an elder but i don’t remember this one, perhaps it is only for some areas?.

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  slimboyfat

  The all caps looks fake.

  Plus I don’t think they’d use the phrase “such a course is not outlawed”. That’s not how they talk about their own policies.
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  3150

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  slimboyfat

  Since his patrons found him on YouTube the best way to reach them on YouTube. I am no good at making video but if someone who makes good videos puts out an update on YouTube about the current situation it could be very effective.

  It should be short and to the point. No longer than 10 minutes and simply point out:

  1. Well over half his supporters have deserted him since the confessions in his livestream in 2022. (Include the graph that shows this)

  2. Psychiatrist Dr Sohom Das analysed his behaviour and described him as a narssisitic psychopath and journalist Andrew Gold described him as like a manipulative cult leader - that’s why nobody will work with him any more.

  3. Despite still collecting patrons’ money he hardly makes any videos at all, never mind fulfil any of the promises he made to his supporters during his begging campaign. Wealthy donors have given him money for multiple holidays instead.

  Short and to the point. Since his own channel is dormant, the YouTube algorithm might well pick up his name from the title and send it to his subscribers. If it’s well done it could shake off a few dozen of his remaining brain dead (sorry) patrons.
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  18

  Hand Grenade Time

  by MissDaSilva in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  decided i’m going to go out with a bang.

  just posted a merry christmas meme on my watsapp status.

  in portuguese but it’s very clear what it means with the baubles etc…... i will keep you posted on people’s reactions.

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  slimboyfat

  I predict most will silently remove you. From the accounts of others, most JWs don’t even engage or say goodbye in this situation. They are more likely to gossip and come to conclusions among themselves than to ask you what’s going on.