Posts by ezekiel3

was wondering the clarification of a relationship someone can have with their mother if they have been disfellowshipped and the daughter is in good standing with the congregation?

the daughter was baptised after the disfellowship.

does this mean the daughter is not to have a relationship with the mother.

ezekiel3

They can do what ever they want as the are responsible adults in society. What are the consequences for the daughter to have a relationship with her mom? I wouldn't feed into telling the daughter what JW's say she can do. Help her think for herself.

Nice thought but go gently. JWs are programmed from day-one to think of other JWs as "brothers and sisters" and prepared to abandon their family over 'Biblical' principles.

The consequences for the daughter in this case are (from her viewpoint):

Lose prospect of eternal life and God's blessing
Lose association of JW friends and family (usually all of your associates since JWs are told not to make friends with non-JWs)
Encourage mother to die at Armeggedon as well by failing to implement disciple program.

This is the glue that holds this cult together.

13

Meeting the Challenge of Meetings - From Awake!

by ezekiel3 in

this quote makes you wonder if anyone at headquaters is reading their own magazines!

from the awake!

july 22, 2003, page 28 "watching the world":.

ezekiel3

Maybe I should have titled the thread: Challenging the Meeting at Meetings - While Asleep!

46

Need clarification on communication with a disfellowshipped person

by jostes in

was wondering the clarification of a relationship someone can have with their mother if they have been disfellowshipped and the daughter is in good standing with the congregation?

the daughter was baptised after the disfellowship.

does this mean the daughter is not to have a relationship with the mother.

ezekiel3

The most recent directive is quoted below from the 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry. Here the organization tightened the screws:

My comments in red

***

km 8/02 pp. 3-4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***

Display

Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped

1

The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your household? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.

2

How to Treat Expelled Ones: God’s Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . . . Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus’ hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.—See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.

3

This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God’s Word states that we should ‘not even eat with such a man.’ (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, ball game, or trip to the mall or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.

4

What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah’s view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: "A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"

5

Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; . . . sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."

6

In the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: "If in a Christian’s household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activities." Thus, it would be left up to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activities. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with whom they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred. [This only applies to a disfellowshipped JW living in the same house.]

7

However, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. . . . That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."

8

If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Watchtower of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God’s Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Maybe he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."—See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.

9

Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.—See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.

10

The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."—The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.

11

As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9."

12

Benefits of Being Loyal to Jehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptural arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible’s high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an opportunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."—Heb. 12:11.

13

After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.

14

Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides an answer to the one that is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah’s blessing. King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."—2 Sam. 22:23, 26.

13

Meeting the Challenge of Meetings - From Awake!

by ezekiel3 in

this quote makes you wonder if anyone at headquaters is reading their own magazines!

from the awake!

july 22, 2003, page 28 "watching the world":.

ezekiel3

This quote makes you wonder if anyone at headquaters is reading their own magazines!

From the Awake! July 22, 2003, page 28 "Watching the World":

Meeting the Challenge of Meetings

Many companies are seeing a need to keep business meetings short and even to do away with unnecessary meetings, reports The New York Times. So to curb waste of time at meetings, some executives have resorted to the use of such desperate measures as stopwatches, whistles, and uncomfortable chairs, as well as having attendees stand rather than sit. Apparently, the executives are not alone in their view. In a survey of over 600 workers, "meetings that last too long" topped the list of time wasters. Patti Hathaway, author of a book that gives advice on handling situations at work, recommends that executives first look at the agenda to decide whether a meeting is really necessary. If the purpose of a proposed meeting is simply to disseminate information, then consider whether the information can be sent by e-mail.

45

The New and Hidden Class Consciousness of Jehovah's Witnesses

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

class consciousness is defined as identification with other members of ones own class and awareness of its relationship with other classes.

a remarkable change has happened in the last ten years among jehovah's witnesses, and this is largely due to the way we communicate.. .

the internet has brought about huge social changes in the way we think, do business and research, and how we spend our free time.. .

ezekiel3

The new sub-group of Jehovah's Witnesses primarily includes those who KNOW about the false teachings of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, who know about the scandals in the organization, such as child abuse, but for one reason or another have chosen to remain in the congregation, perhaps because of family reasons.

The members of this group are savvy, computer literate, and regularly engage in secret, private discussions about their faith with other Jehovah's Witnesses.

Moi? Thanks for the nod. I always wonder how many fellow-JWs I bump into are in the same "sub-group" as I.

11

360 things you MUST BELIEVE in to be a Jehovah's Witness...

by inquirer in

if you don't believe in the 360 points mentioned in the "bible topics for discussion," {at the back of the nwt} you aren't a jw?

[if there is just one point, just one little, etty bitty point... goodness me you can't be a jw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

] yeah, i don't think it's on the watchtower program... just in the printed nwt only.

ezekiel3

The new questions for baptism (from the OD book) are here:

Analyze this: The newly revised questions for baptism

9

Please Tell Me The Name Of the New Publication(s) At This Year's Assembly

by Doubtfully Yours in

.

pretty please!!!.

dy

ezekiel3

More info here:

2005 New Release - What Does The Bible Really Teach?

1

Censer Watchtower esse delendam - Please explain

by ezekiel3 in

jw
friends

i have seen this phrase on a couple of threads, my latin is rough but can you explain?censer watchtower esse delendam .

'irritate the watchtower to its end?'.

can i join?

ezekiel3

I have seen this phrase on a couple of threads, my latin is rough but can you explain?

Censer Watchtower esse delendam
slow-steady-deliberate-relentless

'Irritate the Watchtower to its end?'

Can I join?