Posts by Markfromcali

7

Still Stuck Inside: Coping by Seeing the Cult Personality as a Child

by WalkTall in

jw
friends

as i've mentioned on the board before, i am still inside (for now) hopefully until i can get my children to start thinking more on their own.

one way i have been coping with all the ridiculous nonsense around me is to see and treat the cult personality as the child it is.

realizing that has helped me to understand how intelligent, articulate people remain as cult members.

Markfromcali

Yes, I was doing a search in connection with my thread about subtly coaching JWs to understand things at more mature level and a link I came across used the word heteronomous. Basically it is like the opposite of autonomous, instead of self governing you are governed by an outside influence.

Of course, many religions frame things in terms of an external authority figure, but the natural process of development is that people become more and more autonomous. It reminds me of a title by an educator called The Paradox of Extended Childhood. Rather than encouraging maturation, it is a system designed to create dependency and control.

But I have to say the good news is you're aware of this while your children have yet to spend so much time in such arrested development, so you are in a position to help them actually mature into a thinking adult - that's huge.

Tag from the tea I'm drinking: The remembrance of youth is a sigh.

12

Why do I come here

by Luo bou to in

jw
friends

i believe i have completely freed myself from any borg influence yet i am drawn to this board.

like many of you ,i lost my wife and family, but i don't believe i can do anything about that, and if i could, i doubt that it would be a kindness on my part to do so.

they have so much invested.

Markfromcali

It's interesting that you use the word lucidity Dumi, can you say a little bit about what you mean? I would think of it as being clear, but of course your thinking isn't clear when it's so heavily influenced..

10

icon - 1919 gravesite visit!

by seenitall in

little known facts about the gravesite and monuments of russell in pa.. this is from the convention program - 1919 isba convention report held in pittsburgh.

note how you could get a chip of granite!.

7at the graveon monday, a party of about 150 was conducted by brother bohnet to the grave of brother russell.

Markfromcali

Lets remember the whole idea of bringing reproach on Jehovahs name is basically being concerned with image rather than substance. If it's about the truth it's simple: IT HAPPENED. If the organization can't admit and own up to fault then what business does it have to teach things like humility and repentence? Nice model for denial though.

27

Summer Assembly and Botox

by GrandmaJones in

jw
friends

another no-no from the wt.

this was obviously some sort of manuscript talk, i was there and heard it at the st. louis assembly and asked around, and i know it was at other district conventions.

what business is this for the fds to be in, not a scriptual affair at all.

Markfromcali

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."

108

do you believe in karma?

by SpiceItUp in

jw
friends

we have all heard the cliche' "what goes around comes around" but do you really believe it?.

i know this person that for many years has been unkind, devious and vengeful and then over more recent years has had bad luck everywhere they turned around.

i mean one thing after another.

Markfromcali

Isn't the typical idea of cosmic justice the My Name Is Earl conception of karma? If anyone actually wants to research it rather than use the terminology for a simple popular idea, it'll take some study. A quick google will find detailed info on the traditional teaching, of which there are many parts. I'm not going to discuss it since it's not something I've studied and also not gonna go through the huge thread here.

But as far as why be moral and such with no repercussions, that doesn't say anything about how true it is - just the deterrent effect of keeping people in line. And it is of course a possibility that some people are kind and such because they WANT and CHOOSE to be, not because of any belief in consequences!

What we do know on a practical level is "waiting on" a cosmic justice of some type won't prompt you to take action, when it is within peoples power to stand up for whats just in how they live their life.

12

Why do I come here

by Luo bou to in

jw
friends

i believe i have completely freed myself from any borg influence yet i am drawn to this board.

like many of you ,i lost my wife and family, but i don't believe i can do anything about that, and if i could, i doubt that it would be a kindness on my part to do so.

they have so much invested.

Markfromcali

Not only is there a matter of being freed from the JW past, you might free yourself from some of the psychological influences in mainstream culture if you should want to take it that far. Also, you are free TO do.. well LIFE, frankly.

What exJWs go through is a very big deal, to borrow words from that Rush song it's a matter of "who can face the knowledge that the truth is not the truth?" Most people go through their whole life without questioning their ideas about reality, it's much easier to stay in a comfort zone - but not if you really value what is true. This tells me it's people who have some sense of integrity.

15

Are you recovering the knowledge that you lost?

by cyberjesus in

when i was in school as young jw i would disregard any kind of knowledge that was against what i was taught by the wt.

things evolution, the space, the age periods of the earth, the immnesity of the space, etc etc.

anything that would bring more questions was also disregarded as not important enough to dedicate our valuable time.

Markfromcali

For me it hasn't been so much about knowledge as exercising the ability to think logically and analyze the information. At the very basic level a lot of information is supposed to be accepted on the basis of authority, that's in the public school system too. Not that you need to look at everything from scratch, but it certainly helps in cutting through various types of propaganda, and subtle psychological influences.

23

No Spiritual Heritage

by serenitynow! in

for the born/raised ins, do you feel that you no longer have a spiritual heritage/background/traditions?

i was sitting at my desk absentmindedly humming a "kingdom melody" from the brown songbook, when i realized what i was doing and made myself stop.

there were songs that i really enjoyed.

Markfromcali

Quick hi, haven't been on jw.net in years and thought I'd see how everyone is doing. I guess I have a bit of a soft spot for people here, not really any reason why even though I used to be in but I suppose it probably has something to do with the whole journey to freedom. Anyway, I'm really happy to be here.

As far as the topic goes, first of all great screen name Serenity Now! And of course that along with this subject reminds me of Festivus for the Rest of Us! But seriously, I have to think a little bit about the whole idea of heritage since I kind of don't identify with the idea anymore, also not being a family man, but I guess it has to do with a sense of belonging right? Like home. But as they say, home is where the heart is - and I look at people on this forum, and the people who have gone through all this and I see a LOT of heart. And that's what's important. Sure you may still have those thoughts floating around in your head sometimes, but we're not talking about just open mind but open heart.

For some reason I'm reminded of Don't Stop Believin by Journey here. Not that it's about beliefs and ideas like the ones that was instilled as JWs, there's not much heart there. I guess in a sense believing in the heart itself. And I believe in all of you.

23

Do you really want to get over it?

by Markfromcali in

i'm asking if people might take a moment to seriously consider this.

now by asking this question i don't mean to imply anything like "just get over it already" - i don't think it's so simple as that.

but it's occurred to me that the mental freedom is actually not as valuable to some people as other things, and we do know the jw experience does effect other things in one's life like relationships and livelihood, or one's ability in these kinds of life arenas.

Markfromcali

I don't think it's a matter of WANTING to get over it. Some can't get away from it.

Yeah, that must be why I keep coming back and make posts like this one. It isn't about forgetting, it's about caring. It makes no sense that I would stare at this screen for hours trying to come up with something when there is nothing I can say.

Rest assured none of what you have said was ever implied. I'm sorry I cannot convey it more clearly.

31

Is Love of God Real?

by donkey in

jw
friends

since we cannot prove that god exists and believers claim that we need to have faith that he does indeed exist one can ask: can you truly love someone that you do not know exists?

if you went to your friends and declared your absolute love for someone and when they asked you who you loved you said: "i love jennifer with all my heart.

" and if the friends then asked to meet jennifer and you said "i have believe she exists but i have never met her, never communicated with her, never seen her..." would you your friends think you were cuckoo?

Markfromcali

Actually this isn't so complicated, because we can just look to interpersonal relationships to see how people love not the other person, but their idealized image of that person. Likewise the same can be said of your idea of ultimate reality - be it God, life, whatever you may have read from whatever school of thought etc. etc.

And then there is the difference between love as in having affection for something, and being in love with someone or something where you are just really engaged. You can have feelings for pretty much anything, but being in love in this sense would be a matter of the dynamics of the interaction. In this case it really isn't about your personal feelings.