Posts by artful

14

Online Bibles

by JosephAlward in

i believe there are many on this forum who are not aware of the many online bibles from which they could almost effortless copy verses to paste into their arguments.

when one refers to a particular verse in a particular book, few readers have the patience to go seach through the whole book.. the online source i use is called "bible gateway.

" it provides several different versions of the bible, and offers word search, which is an indispensible tool for those who take their bible research seriously.. bible gateway is at http://bible.gospelcom.net/.

artful

Some great references here!

Is anyone aware if the New World (Mis)Translation is available online anywhere?

cheers
artful

7

"You Know" invited to The Last Supper

by Atreyu in

sorry for late response.

this is a commentary to a reply from you know, regarding the meaning of the last supper.

by using covenant in both verses, the nwt is thereby giving the impression that the covenant of the blood (v20) is the same thing as the appointment of the kingdom to the disciples (v29).. the greek word for covenant in v20 is diatheke.

artful

Atreyu.

I was not aware of this mistranslation and therefore misapplication of Luke 20:29. Thanks for pointing out another discrepancy with the NWT. This presents yet another very solid argument against the idea of two classes of Christians as presented by the WTS.

cheers
artful

8

Interesting NWT Stuff

by SYN in

got this in one of my xjw mailing lists, have a lookie guys!

flame away!.

examining translations with jehovah's witnesses.

artful

Interesting points TheOldHippie.

However, you mention:

However, if you, the reader of the NWT Reference Edition of 1984, want, or prefer, the alternative rendering of "to know", then the footnote gives you that choice. It should be noted that the 1st edition of the NWT of 1950 also says in a footnote, "Or, "their knowing you."

Surely you are not suggesting that the WTSs intention is that the R&F JW reader has the choice as to which rendering they prefer. I would love to see the look on the congregation overseers face should a dub get up and read the scripture as:
"This means everlasting life, to know you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

Not to mention that by far the most frequently used JW bibles (as lovingly provided by the WTS) don't contain any such footnotes. To use your own words:

A case of informing or misinforming. We'll let you decide.

cheers
artful

3

Question for Amazing—Re: Franz/Bible

by Nemesis in

amazing:.

i was curious after i read that you know ray franz, what his views are on those who go to heaven and those who dwell on earth in regard to the scriptures.

i have read both his books, and appreciate all the information therein.

artful

Hi Nemesis

With regards to your point:

The reasons I ask is the scriptures do indicate a time when there will be no more death from old age,

I am also struggling with this question, and I have begun to research some of the 'proof texts' for the paradise earth doctrine. One such text used by JW's is Isa 65 and specifically vs. 21-22 which read (NWT):

_______
21 And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat their fruitage.
22 They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full.
_________

I have read these scriptures to many people in support of the paradise earth idea without ever really reading verse 20 which says:

_______
20. No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him.
________

Verse 20 then seems to refer to a long and healthy life, but certainly not one free from death - for either righteous ones or sinners. This scripture could then be taken to have reference only to the earthly prosperity enjoyed by Isreal while she was God's nation. And this appears to conform to the idea presented by Amazing:

any "earthly" statements in the Bible either applied literally to Israel while she was God's nation, or apply in a symbolic sense of those who go to heaven.

cheers
artful

8

Interesting NWT Stuff

by SYN in

got this in one of my xjw mailing lists, have a lookie guys!

flame away!.

examining translations with jehovah's witnesses.

artful

Thanks for the info SYN.

I have recently been re-reading the NT in the New English Bible and when I ran across the very familiar scripture in John 17:3, I was struck by the difference between "knowing" (NEB) vs. "taking in knowledge" (NWT). For years (in my former dub life) this was one of my favorite scriptures for using in the preaching of the 'good news'. The idea of course was to impress upon non-dubs that 'taking in knowledge' of God and Jesus by means of the WT publications was vital for their everlasting life. What a stark contrast the correct rendering of John 17:3 provides!

I believe that the same concept of 'knowing' someone vs. 'having knowledge' of them can be illustrated with the example of Jesus 'knowing' God as 'Father' (signifying a close or unique relationship) versus having 'knowledge' of God (eg. that his name is Yahweh).

cheers
artful

36

What do you think will happen when all the FDS die

by termite 35 in

i'm not planning anything..... but when they all pop off, what are the rest going to do?they think the ns will come before they all die, so how the heck will they cope with it ,scriptually speaking/ surely cause a few to 'desert'?

there was a thread a few days ago about elders being up graded to fds status by some out of context crappily applied scripture;do you think they'll explain the absence of god's action with' the fds is still here!.

or will they work everyone up into a horribly humiliating fever pitch of protelisizing ,the like of which we have yet to see?

artful

Hi termite.

Considering that there seem to have been 'roughly' 9,000 'annointed' lingering around for the last 30 years, I don't see this being a problem for the Borg anytime soon.

Although I'm sure that before he goes the very last FDS member will provide some wonderful 'new light' on that question :-)

Good luck with your 'better half'.

cheers
artful

11

How many.....to change a light bulb?

by Joyzabel in

freefallin e-mailed this to me and thought you all would enjoy it.. changing a light bulb the christian way.

how many christians does it take to change a light bulb?.

charismatic: only one.

artful

Thanks for the welcome joy2bfree.

Very funny signature Skipper...if you don't mind I think I'll use that one on some of my family. I'm sure they will get a kick out of it

cheers
artful

31

'OUR KINGDOM MINISTRY' . . . . . . . . . . [scans]

by nicolaou in

well he's always asking for them so, kent, here they are.

i'll add the new ones each month as i receive them.. i've got most of the km's going back a few years but please don't ask me to scan the lot!

if there are specific issues you need however, just let me know.. posting them here so everyone can grab 'em as opposed to emailing out dozens of copies.. nic'.

artful

Hey Runningman (fellow Canadian!)

From what I have been told by a Canadian Borgite, the KMs are so similar because each month the master templates are created at the Vatican..oops, I mean Brooklyn, and electronically submitted to each country branch to fill in only their local info. Of course they only have a very limited space lest they should over step Jehovah's words...oops, I mean the GB's words...or are they the same thing? I don't remember

Cheers.
Artful

11

How many.....to change a light bulb?

by Joyzabel in

freefallin e-mailed this to me and thought you all would enjoy it.. changing a light bulb the christian way.

how many christians does it take to change a light bulb?.

charismatic: only one.

artful

How many JWs does it take to change a light bulb?

None. Light bulb changing has Pagan origins!

31

'OUR KINGDOM MINISTRY' . . . . . . . . . . [scans]

by nicolaou in

well he's always asking for them so, kent, here they are.

i'll add the new ones each month as i receive them.. i've got most of the km's going back a few years but please don't ask me to scan the lot!

if there are specific issues you need however, just let me know.. posting them here so everyone can grab 'em as opposed to emailing out dozens of copies.. nic'.

artful

With regard to the comment on the new TMS book and YoYo's comment on the "good news" being preached (whose good news?): see this posting
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=22958&site=3

cheers
artful

"Beliefs Burden. Ideas Inspire".