Posts by Corvin

23

Do teenage JW's have a higher suicide rate?

by thomas3004 in

i read online that teenage jw's have a suicide rate four times higher than the national average.

i was curious if anybody could refer me to actual statistics that could either confirm or deny that.

i have a friend who was struggling with suicidal thoughts a few months ago and now her new boyfriend is trying to convert her to be a jw.

Corvin

Well, I can honestly say that I knew personally more JW's who took their own lives than worldly folks. I have known more JW's who expressed suicidal thoughts than I have worldly. There could very well be a thread or pattern.

Corvin

39

New Sex-Scandal Coming Up In Norway!

by Kent in

a new sex-scandal is coming up in norway .

this case is not reported to the police, and as far as i know the local congregation in a small town in telemark, norway - is trying to find out what to do with it.. .

this time it's not an elder abusing children.

Corvin

At the time being I can't give you any details - since it's not clear what will happen to the case. If the congregation will react (Yeah - sure!) I will see what happens. If not, they might find themselves in a difficult situation. News about this case can be leaked to media and police - and a message about it on this forum doesn't help the "loving" brothers and sisters in South Telemark a whole lot.

I'll keep you posted. My sources are solid....

What are your solid sources . . . ?

10

PR TO GIVE THE GB CREDIBILITY????

by Corvin in

i am posting the entire article .

a bit of a read, but those who are so inclined .

comments????.

Corvin

I am posting the entire article . . . a bit of a read, but those who are so inclined . . . comments????

***

w98 3/15 pp. 18-23 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***

Living

Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom

"Where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom." —2 CORINTHIANS 3:17.

JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES believe that their religion will last forever. They therefore anticipate serving God "with spirit and truth" for all eternity. (John 4:23, 24) As free moral agents, these Christians have made an unreserved dedication to Jehovah God and are determined to live up to it. To that end, they rely on God’s Word and on his holy spirit. As they wholeheartedly pursue their course of Christian dedication in God-given freedom, the Witnesses show due respect for the role of governmental "superior authorities" and make proper use of legal means and provisions. (Romans 13:1; James 1:25) For instance, the Witnesses use the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument—one of many in various lands—to enable them to accomplish their work of helping fellow humans, especially in spiritual ways. But the Witnesses are dedicated to God, not to any legal agency, and their dedication to Jehovah will last forever.

2

As servants dedicated to God, Jehovah’s Witnesses are obligated to follow Jesus’ instructions to "make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them." (Matthew 28:19, 20) This work will continue until the end of the system of things, for Jesus also said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:3, 14) Each year, printing plants of the Watch Tower Society and similar legal bodies supply Jehovah’s Witnesses with millions of Bibles, books, brochures, and magazines for use in their worldwide preaching activity. These legal entities are therefore invaluable in helping dedicated servants of God to live up to their dedication to him.

3

Someone may argue that the way the Witnesses speak about the Watch Tower Society—or more often just "the Society"—indicates that they view it as more than a legal instrument. Do they not consider it to be the final authority on matters of worship? The book Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom clarifies this point by explaining: "When The Watchtower [June 1, 1938] referred to ‘The Society,’ this meant, not a mere legal instrumentality, but the body of anointed Christians that had formed that legal entity and used it." The expression therefore stood for "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45) It is in this sense that the Witnesses generally used the term "the Society." Of course, the legal corporation and "the faithful and discreet slave" are not interchangeable terms. Directors of the Watch Tower Society are elected, whereas Witnesses who make up ‘the faithful slave’ are anointed by Jehovah’s holy spirit.

4

In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, "the Society teaches," many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, "the Bible says" or, "I understand the Bible to teach." In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. Of course, suggestions as regards terminology should never become a subject of controversy. After all, terminology is of importance only to the extent that it prevents misunderstandings. Christian balance is required. The Bible admonishes us "not to fight about words." (2 Timothy 2:14, 15) The Scriptures also state this principle: "Unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken?"—1 Corinthians 14:9.

God’s

Spirit Reduces the Need for Rules

5

"All things are lawful; but not all things are advantageous," noted the apostle Paul. He added: "All things are lawful; but not all things build up." (1 Corinthians 10:23) Paul obviously did not mean that it is lawful to do things that God’s Word expressly condemns. Compared to the some 600 laws given to ancient Israel, there are comparatively few explicit commands regulating Christian life. Hence, many matters are left to individual conscience. A person who has made a dedication to Jehovah enjoys the freedom that results from guidance by God’s spirit. Having made the truth his own, a Christian follows his Bible-trained conscience and relies on God’s direction by holy spirit. This helps the dedicated Christian to determine what will "build up" and be "advantageous" for himself and others. He realizes that the decisions he makes will affect his personal relationship with God, to whom he is dedicated.

6

A Witness demonstrates that he has made the truth his own by commenting at Christian meetings. At first, he may recite what is stated in the publication being studied. In time, however, he will progress to the point of expressing Bible teachings in his own words. He thus gives evidence that he is developing his thinking ability, not merely repeating what others have said. Framing thoughts in his own words and expressing correct words of truth in a heartfelt way will bring him delight and show that he is convinced in his own mind.—Ecclesiastes 12:10; compare Romans 14:5b.

7

Jehovah’s Witnesses are motivated by love for God and their fellow humans. (Matthew 22:36-40) True, they are closely knit together by the bond of Christlike love as a worldwide association of brothers. (Colossians 3:14; 1 Peter 5:9) But as a free moral agent, each one has personally decided to declare the good news of God’s Kingdom, to remain politically neutral, to abstain from blood, to avoid certain types of entertainment, and to live by Bible standards. These are not decisions forced upon them. They are decisions that fall within the framework of a way of life freely chosen by potential Witnesses before they ever take the step of Christian dedication.

Accountable

to a Governing Body?

8

The Bible clearly shows that true Christians do not serve God under coercion. It says: "Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom." (2 Corinthians 3:17) But how can this fact be harmonized with the idea of a "faithful and discreet slave" with its Governing Body?—Matthew 24:45-47.

9

To answer this question, we must keep in mind the Scriptural principle of headship. (1 Corinthians 11:3) At Ephesians 5:21-24, Christ is identified as "head of the congregation," the one to whom it is "in subjection." Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that the faithful and discreet slave is made up of Jesus’ spiritual brothers. (Hebrews 2:10-13) This faithful slave class has been appointed to provide God’s people with spiritual "food at the proper time." In this time of the end, Christ has appointed this slave "over all his belongings." Its position therefore merits the respect of anyone claiming to be a Christian.

10

The purpose of headship is to preserve unity and ensure that "all things take place decently and by arrangement." (1 Corinthians 14:40) To achieve this in the first century, a number of anointed Christians from the faithful and discreet slave class were chosen to represent the entire group. As subsequent events proved, the supervision exercised by this first-century governing body had Jehovah’s approval and blessing. First-century Christians gladly accepted the arrangement. Yes, they actually welcomed and were grateful for the fine results it produced.—Acts 15:1-32.

11

The value of such an arrangement still exists. Presently, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is composed of ten anointed Christians, all with decades of Christian experience behind them. They offer spiritual direction to Jehovah’s Witnesses, as did the first-century governing body. (Acts 16:4) Like the early Christians, the Witnesses gladly look to the mature brothers of the Governing Body for Bible-based direction and guidance in matters of worship. Though members of the Governing Body are slaves of Jehovah and of Christ, as are their fellow Christians, the Bible instructs us: "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."—Hebrews 13:17.

12

Does the position of oversight that the Scriptures assign the Governing Body mean that each of Jehovah’s Witnesses must render to it an account of his works? Not according to Paul’s words to Christians in Rome: "Why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God . . . Each of us will render an account for himself to God."—Romans 14:10-12.

13

Is it not true, however, that individual Witnesses are expected to report their preaching activity? Yes, but the purpose of this is clearly explained in a Witness handbook, which says: "Early followers of Jesus Christ took interest in reports of progress in the preaching work. (Mark 6:30) As the work prospered, statistical reports were compiled along with accounts of outstanding experiences of those having a share in preaching the good news. . . . (Acts 2:5-11, 41, 47; 6:7; 1:15; 4:4) . . . How encouraging it was for those faithful Christian workers to hear reports of what was being accomplished! . . . In like manner, Jehovah’s modern-day organization endeavors to keep precise records of the work being done in fulfillment of Matthew 24:14."

14

The Governing Body is a loving provision and an example of faith worthy of imitation. (Philippians 3:17; Hebrews 13:7) By their adhering to and following Christ as a model, they can echo Paul’s words: "Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy, for it is by your faith that you are standing." (2 Corinthians 1:24) By observing trends, the Governing Body draws attention to the benefits of heeding Bible counsel, offers suggestions about applying Bible laws and principles, warns of hidden dangers, and provides "fellow workers" needed encouragement. It thus discharges its Christian stewardship, helps them to maintain their joy, and builds them up in faith so that they can stand firm.—1 Corinthians 4:1, 2; Titus 1:7-9.

15

If a Witness makes decisions on the basis of Bible counsel offered by the Governing Body, he does so of his own volition because his own study of the Bible has convinced him that this is the proper course. Each Witness is influenced by God’s own Word to apply sound Scriptural counsel offered by the Governing Body, in full recognition that decisions he makes will affect his personal relationship with God, to whom he is dedicated.—1 Thessalonians 2:13.

Students

and Soldiers

16

But if decisions as to conduct are a personal matter, why are some of Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped? Nobody arbitrarily determines that the practice of a particular sin requires disfellowshipping. Rather, this action is Scripturally required only when a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sins, such as those enumerated in the 5th chapter of First Corinthians. Thus, while a Christian may be disfellowshipped for practicing fornication, this occurs only if the individual refuses to accept the spiritual assistance of loving shepherds. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not alone in following this Christian practice. The Encyclopedia of Religion notes: "Any community claims the right to protect itself against nonconforming members who may threaten the common welfare. In a religious setting this right has often been reinforced by the belief that the sanction [of excommunication] affects one’s standing before God."

17

Jehovah’s Witnesses are students of the Bible. (Joshua 1:8; Psalm 1:2; Acts 17:11) The program of Bible education provided by the Governing Body might be compared to a school curriculum outlined by a board of education. Although the board is itself not the source of the material being taught, it does set up the curriculum, determine the method of instruction, and issue necessary directives. If anyone flagrantly refuses to live according to the requirements of the institution, creates difficulties for fellow students, or brings disgrace upon the school, he can be expelled. The school authorities have the right to act for the benefit of the students as a whole.

18

Besides being students, Jehovah’s Witnesses are soldiers of Jesus Christ, instructed to "fight the fine fight of the faith." (1 Timothy 6:12; 2 Timothy 2:3) Naturally, persistent conduct unbecoming a Christian soldier may incur divine disapproval. As an individual endowed with freedom of choice, a Christian soldier can decide as he wishes, but he must bear the consequences of his decision. Paul reasons: "No man serving as a soldier involves himself in the commercial businesses of life, in order that he may gain the approval of the one who enrolled him as a soldier. Moreover, if anyone contends even in the games, he is not crowned unless he has contended according to the rules." (2 Timothy 2:4, 5) Mature Christians, including those of the Governing Body, remain wholly at the disposal of their Leader, Jesus Christ, keeping "the rules" so that they can win the prize of life everlasting.—John 17:3; Revelation 2:10.

19

Do not the facts make clear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are servants of God, not slaves of men? As dedicated Christians enjoying the freedom for which Christ set them free, they let God’s spirit and his Word govern their lives as they serve unitedly with their brothers in the congregation of God. (Psalm 133:1) The evidences of this should also erase any uncertainty about the source of their strength. With the psalmist, they can sing: "Jehovah is my strength and my shield. In him my heart has trusted, and I have been helped, so that my heart exults, and with my song I shall laud him."—Psalm 28:7.

23

How were you disfellowshiped????

by tcpmp in

i'm pretty new to this forum.

i thought it was pretty intresting so i thought i would share my experiences.

when i was 17 i was disfellowshiped and as i sat there looking at all of the elders i was remembering all of the things that their children had done.

Corvin

My mother had just died, 14 years ago . . . hit by a drunk driver as she and I were driving home from the Kingdom Hall one night. She had just been reinstated that night after working very hard to bring her life into harmony with the burdensome rules and edicts of the WTBTS. She walked out of the Kingdom Hall that night, I could tell, feeling empty, deflated. Not sure why she looked so dejected in instead of joyful because we did not have a chance to talk about it; we were going to get coffee and talk about things . . .

All of my local relatives, JW's, acted terribly hypocritically, and my mom's sister, Aunt Esther, who always treated my mom like dirt, raised a big stink over two of my older brothers being disfellowshipped and coming to her memorial. She also chose to make an issue of one of my other brother's being gay. (her own grandson was/is gay). She was basically pissed that my mom had died, paid the wage, and got her ticket into the new system, while she had to sit here for the rest of her miserable ignorant life knowing she herself would probably not make it herself.

Some of the elders treated my brothers very badly telling them that they "were damn lucky to even be able to attend our mother's memorial in the Kingdom Hall".

Aunt Fanatical Esther and her brood sat on one side of the Kingdom Hall while me and my brothers sat on the other side. I resented their crododile tears. Esther simply wanted all the attention for herself on my mother's "special day". I looked at them and contrasted their so-called "Christian attitudes" with the open love and support of my "worldly" boss, his wife and kids, and several workmates who were attending, sitting right up front with me, my wife and kids and my brothers. I could see the look of knowing in my boss' eyes. He could plainly see the hypocricy floating around the KH and he gazed at me once with a look that told me to "run like hell" from this crap.

I was having nightmares about the car crash that I walked away from, the same one that instantly claimed my mother's life. I would sometimes bolt in my sleep or awaken sobbing. My wife told me that I should get over it, that I should "be a man and move on". She had never lost anyone close to her and she was not about to be put out by letting me grieve the death of my mother.

Although in good standing, there was no one I could turn to for support and comfort. I felt as though I had already been cut off. My best friends wife, (I did not know what a kookly slut she was) was the only one that offerred me comfort. While nothing ever happened, my wife accused me of having an affair with her. She attacked me and my friends wife physically. When the commotion died down a bit, I reached for cigarette. I smoked it openly and defiantly in my wifes presence. She told the elders. She was new to the religion, I had brought her in and taught her the WTBTS's doctrines, and she learned quickly to use "the truth" as a means by which she could control me. I sat before the elders and matter of factly told them I was smoking. They asked if I had any intention of quitting any time soon. I told them no. I basically knew what I was doing leaving them with no room to show me mercy, no other choice but to expel me from my association with the congregation.

I walked out of the Kingdom Hall that evening know that I had just gained my freedom. It would take me almost 14 years, a divorce, gaining custody of my children and marrying a truly good woman to realize completely that freedom, but here I am now and I have never been happier in all my life.

Corvin

11

You know you spend too long in JWD when...

by FMZ in

jw
friends

ok... you know the drill... .

- everyone you spoke to in chat last night appears in your dreams, having the same conversation as you did while in chat and on the threads.. - you add your screenname to the end of all emails, including business ones.. - you hit the refresh button on the active topcs page more than 3 times in one minute.. - you shout "apostate bastard!

" at the driver who just cut you off.. .

Corvin

. . . have posted your limit then go to other JW message boards, which are not as fun.

20

What Do You Really Know About The Bible?

by Gadget in

did you learn a lot about the bible while you were a jw?

try this bible quiz!.

http://ffrf.org/bquiz.html

Corvin

Did you learn a lot about the bible while you were a jw? Try this bible quiz!

. . . how embarrassing.

27

All please welcome Ruby, first post today!

by seeitallclearlynow in

jw
friends

.

here: would you care if you got disfellowshipped at this point in time?.

welcome ruby, and i hope you stay awhile, and get to know the nice people here.

Corvin

Hi Ruby! Welcome!

21

Were You One Who "Waited On Jehovah"? ----- What Did It Get You??

by minimus in

jw
friends

a lot of people were told to "just wait on jehovah" were you ever told this??.

unfortunately, millions of people have died "waiting on jehovah".

Corvin

This is what the WTBTS says about waiting:

*** w00 9/1 pp. 11-14 Show a Waiting Attitude! ***
Show
a Waiting Attitude!
"I will show a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me."—MICAH 7:7.
Adopting
a Waiting Attitude Aids JW's to Keep Buying and Ignoring WTS Errors, Lies & Half-Truths
7 As Bible prophecies undergo fulfillment, our understanding of the Scriptures is refined. At times, though, we may think that a certain clarification is overdue. If it is not forthcoming when we would prefer it, are we willing to wait? Remember, Jehovah saw fit to reveal "the sacred secret of the Christ" a little at a time and over a period of some 4,000 years. (Ephesians 3:3-6) Do we, then, have any reason to be impatient? Do we doubt that a "faithful and discreet slave" has been appointed to give Jehovah’s people "their food at the proper time"? (Matthew 24:45) Why deprive ourselves of godly joy because not everything is completely understood? Remember, Jehovah decides when and how to reveal his ‘confidential matters.’—Amos 3:7.
8
Some may be discouraged because they feel that after many years of faithful service, they may not live to see "the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah." (Joel 2:30, 31) Still, they can be encouraged when they look at the positive aspect. Peter counseled: "Consider the patience of our Lord as salvation." (2 Peter 3:15) Jehovah’s patience has allowed millions of additional righthearted ones to learn the truth. Is that not wonderful? Further, the longer Jehovah exercises patience, the more time we have to "keep working out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling."—Philippians 2:12; 2 Peter 3:11, 12.
9
A waiting attitude helps us not to be discouraged when opposition, sickness, advancing age, or other problems hinder us in Kingdom service. Jehovah expects us to serve him wholeheartedly. (Romans 12:1) However, God’s Son, who feels "sorry for the lowly one and the poor one," does not demand more than we can reasonably offer; neither does Jehovah. (Psalm 72:13) Thus, we are encouraged to do what we can, patiently waiting until circumstances change—either in this system of things or in that which is to come. Remember: "God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name, in that you have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering."—Hebrews 6:10.
10
A waiting attitude also helps us to avoid presumptuousness. Some who have become apostate were unwilling to wait. They may have felt that there was a need for adjustments, either in Bible understanding or in organizational matters. Yet, they failed to acknowledge that Jehovah’s spirit moves the faithful and discreet slave to make adjustments in His due time, not when we may feel that this is needed. And any adjustments must be in harmony with Jehovah’s will, not our personal ideas. Apostates allow a presumptuous attitude to warp their thinking and stumble them. But if they had adopted the mental attitude of Christ, they could have retained their joy and remained among Jehovah’s people.—Philippians 2:5-8.
11
Of course, maintaining a waiting attitude does not mean being lazy or inactive. We have things to do. For example, we need to be occupied in personal Bible study and thus show the same keen interest in spiritual things that the faithful prophets and even the angels showed. Speaking of such interest, Peter says: "Concerning this very salvation a diligent inquiry and a careful search were made by the prophets . . . Into these very things angels are desiring to peer." (1 Peter 1:10-12) Not only is personal study a must but so are regular meeting attendance and prayer. (James 4:8) Those who show an awareness of their spiritual need by regularly taking in spiritual food and associating with fellow Christians demonstrate that they have adopted Christ’s mental attitude.—Matthew 5:3.

This entire article was written and published to warn and re-aline the thinking of those doubting the Organization.

23

WTS APPEARS WITH UN AND OTHERS

by little witch in

in looking to refute that silly excuse given by the watchtower as to why it joined the un as an ngo, i found two instances of the jw ngo representatives rolling in the hay with the ol' whore.

here is one... (assuming my paste works)

http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1999/documentation/commission/e-cn4-sub2-1999-21.htm

Corvin

In looking to refute that silly excuse given by the watchtower as to why it joined the UN as an NGO, I found two instances of the jw ngo representatives rolling in the hay with the ol' whore.
Here is one... (assuming my paste works)
http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1999/documentation/commission/e-cn4-sub2-1999-21.htm

This very link you give was part of a recent topic. The following from "hawk" on that same link spells it out . . .

Let's take a big .... major ..... pause .......
Its not that the corporations are non govenmental organizations (NGOs) as defined that is the issue. Hell, all not for profit corporations are considered NGOs.
The key is .... did the corporation "partner" with the United Nations and in doing so did it voluntarily agree to the UN's criteria (ie. showing support for the Charter etc.). Was the corporation "associated" with the UN's DPI or did it have a consultative status with the UN's ECOSOC.
The only corporation to be an "associated NGO" with the UN's DPI so far has been the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
No one has offered any proof (yet) that any other corporation affilated with the WTS has gone down the path of "partnering" with the beast.
Therefore, unless I am missing something please stop this little effort before it gets right out of control.
Remember the keys to the puzzle are - did the NGO obtain an "associated" status with the UN's Department of Public Information or did it obtain a "consultative" status with the UN's ECOSOC.
Also remember that NGOs do not "join" but rather "partner" with the UN. In doing so the "evil scarlet coloured beast" requires the "transparent" NGO to voluntarily support the "beast's" Charter.
hawk

The entire thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/69181/1085627/post.ashx#1085627

Best Regards,

Corvin

32

Book Study Conductor Becomes An Ass

by Corvin in

jw
friends

my daughter has been dating a non-baptized jw boy, 18, we will call him "casey"; she is 17, and he seems to be ok that i am an apostate.

he comes over to the house, spends hours talking to the entire family, including apostate me, and he is truly remarkable in that he cares not what others might say about his association with my daughter and me.

good kid.

Corvin

told the BS conductor that they did not want me, my hubby or our baby back in their home. . The brother who had to telll us, was so embarassed, he said it was a racial/economic thing.

wow, that is disturbing and sickening. sorry to hear about that experience. We were po JW's too, and those "well to so" JW's, in our case, were my own relatives looking down their noses at us. Knowing them as I do, they were some of the biggest JW hypocrites I ever knew.

Corvin