Posts by OrphanCrow

39

NEW LIGHT FROM SLO CIRCUIT OVERSEER "Warning, Blood on Doorposts", "The Couple who Missed One Meeting Died With Their Kids, Don't Miss Any!

by Trailer Park Pioneer in

sorry, i messed up before i could put the right title on this new light from our circuit overseer, his visit show's a great desperation in the organization's mindset, adding more anxiety and guilt to jws who already feel they don't measure up!.

hi, i attended the circuit overseers visit and got really angry because our c.o.

gave information coming from the governing body's chief apologists regarding "meeting attendance" and "the couple who missed one meeting and lost their entire family because they did not get the "411" when armageddon was coming!

OrphanCrow

blood was put on the doorposts

The WTS has lots of blood on their doorpost - 70 years of JWs' blood. The ones who died refusing blood transfusions.

8

What would happen if both parents of a baptised child were to be disfellowshipped?

by Esse quam videri in

we hear of children as young as eight being baptized.

the governing body have tried making twelve year olds feel guilty about not being baptized.

being as the society has encouraged [pushed] young ones to be baptized, it apparently has taken a 'keen interest' in the spiritual health and eternal welfare of the child.

OrphanCrow

Esse, I will relate to you my personal experience with a situation similar to the one you describe. However, because it is my own experience, it may be somewhat outdated. And I apologize for the length - I can be a bit long winded.

This event happened in 1971, a couple years after Franz had made his !969 summer assembly announcement about 1974 marking the 'end of the Gentile times' - I attended the Vancouver Assembly in 69 when I was 12 years old - and so began the ugly times. My mother was disfellowshipped the following year for 'unChristanlike behaviour'. And my father, a Ministerial Servant, who had attended Toronto's Kingdom Ministry School, became inactive and my parents were sort of separated.

I was forced, by both my parents, to continue attending meetings and going out in field service with my older brother, who was being groomed for elder status, and my older sister. This continued for about a year. I was never baptized. And I hated it the whole time. I absolutely despised everything about the Kingdom Hall and the religion.

At the age of 13, I got my chance and put in my heels ( a long story that involves a go-cart and a broken ankle) and refused to go back to meetings. About two months into my rebellion, I received a visit from the two top guys in the congregation. They had to have watched the house and timed their visit when they knew I was home alone. My mother worked. Keep in mind, I was only 13 - a young minor girl.

They came in the house, sat down and promptly asked me why I wasn't at meetings, read some Bible scriptures to me, and asked me "if I wasn't worried about Armageddon coming Real Soon?".

I was very scared, but also pretty angry by this time, but the anger helped me get over my fear and this is what I said to them:

"Well, correct me if I am wrong, but, what you teach at the Kingdom Hall about Armageddon is that, when it comes, all the babies and children of the people who are bad and turned away from Jehovah will be judged on their parent's actions, right?"

Of course they nodded, pleased that i had learned my lessons so well. And then I said:

"Well then, I don't see the point of me attending meetings, because, if Armageddon could come tomorrow like you say, then I won't be saved anyways, so it would be a waste of time for me to go back to the Kingdom Hall. Because my Dad doesn't go to meetings anymore and you guys kicked out my Mom for working in the bar. And I am not baptized. So you will have to leave and don't bother coming back."

And that is almost word for word what I said. Even though it was so many years ago (my gawd - way too long ago!), it was pretty much the most important moment in my life so I remember it really well.

I showed them the door and told them not to bother coming back - I was scared and shaking. I phoned my Mom at work. She phoned them and tore a strip off them both for coming in the house when she wasn't home. She was pissed.

Over the years, I have been targeted off and on by local JWs who know me. However, during the past few years, most of those back in my home country give me wide berth when they see me. We have had several encounters that have not ended well and I am well known as an outspoken critic of the Watchtower Society. In spite of that, there are a few JWs that I have a nod and smile relationship with.

My mother has remained disfellowshipped for the past 45 years but she is still on the call list for visits from the local congregation. She is in her 80s and will get the obligatory visit from a local elder and the CO when he is in town. They read her a scripture or two and ask her if she wants to come back to the fold. She says no and they leave. And return the next time the CO comes to town.

And by the way, she was one of the JW children baptized right at the beginning of WW2. The Canadian WTS sent men around to rural Canada to do a sweep of baptisms, especially children, and she was baptized at 6 years of age, in 1939. And then disfellowshipped years later, when she was in her 30s.

So, in answer to your query about if 'They' ever give up, I can only answer from my own experience and, unfortunately - no.

Orphan Crow

36

Rasputin and Serums and Herbs--Oh My!

by rebel8 in

i have written a blog post about the dubs and their scorn of modern medicine and rasputin, while simultaneously touting unproven, dangerous cures.. i wonder what it is about a fake remedy that makes jws believe in it or scorn it?.

OrphanCrow

I wondered why the demons could heal something through a false religious figure but jehovah's only plan was to let me die and be resurrected later.

Yup, that's those tricky ol' demons for you. They go around doing miraculous things just to lead you down the path to Satan's hell. I never could figure out, either, why the demons could 'do good deeds' like save someone's life, yet the Big Guy Jehovah couldn't care less if you lived or died.

When I was 'in', I often thought that the demons had far more sense than Jehovah did. At least they could do something whereas Jehovah just sat up there and passed judgement without giving a hoot about people suffering and dying because of not being able to access life saving procedures.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

OrphanCrow

lol, Robert's Rules ...... I doubt if anyone reading this ever even heard of them.

Lol.

I would never have expected Robert's Rules to be applied to an informal discussion/debate forum.

Generally, Robert's Rules applies to formally conducted meetings and parliamentary procedure.

19

Jehovah's Witnesses activity game - Dressing and Undressing Children

by jwleaks in

with all the jehovah's witnesses child abuse scandals being reported on by the media around the world at the moment what were the governing body of jehovah's witnesses thinking?.

link to activity page:http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/activities/time-to-get-ready/.

.

OrphanCrow

are we going to suggest that Toys'r'Us stop selling dolls?

No.

That is not a fair comparison.

Religious indoctrination within a closed community is not the same as a retail outlet.

19

Jehovah's Witnesses activity game - Dressing and Undressing Children

by jwleaks in

with all the jehovah's witnesses child abuse scandals being reported on by the media around the world at the moment what were the governing body of jehovah's witnesses thinking?.

link to activity page:http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/activities/time-to-get-ready/.

.

OrphanCrow

The game itself may well be innocent in the hands of innocent people, but it's not the innocent we need to be concerned about, it's the undetected pedophile that sees an opportunity to ask children to play dress-ups- just like Jehovah does. Pedophiles don't think like normal people, and making undressing a game to children is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

Exactly.

I agree.

Just because dressup dolls seem innocuous to those who wouldn't think of using them for nefarious purposes, doesn't mean that those with sexual grooming of children in mind won't use them for that.

In the hands of a pedophile, dressup dolls can be a valuable tool.

I am surprised that the WTS is using dress up dolls for JW children - somebody, somewhere up there in the WTS hierarchy, should be aware of the potential abuse that these dolls could generate.

19

Jehovah's Witnesses activity game - Dressing and Undressing Children

by jwleaks in

with all the jehovah's witnesses child abuse scandals being reported on by the media around the world at the moment what were the governing body of jehovah's witnesses thinking?.

link to activity page:http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/activities/time-to-get-ready/.

.

OrphanCrow

I used to play with paper dolls, they were fairly popular in my area in the mid 1970s. But I seem to remember that my paper dolls had actual printed underwear, not just blank white space. It does seem really out of date, and micromanaging in the sense of telling people exactly what to wear, but that's it. I do not get a pedophile/creeper vibe from it.

I think that people's differing reactions to these WTS 'dress-up' dolls could be due to age differences.

I, too, played with paper dolls, not in the 70s, but in the 60s. They were once very popular.

However, in today's climate of pedophiles being finally 'outed' and prosecuted, dressup dolls have come to be associated on two levels with pedophilia.

First, underage sex websites are notorious for linking to sites that offer dressup dolls. I stumbled across some of those links many years ago when my daughter was young and we were searching for doll activities to download.

Secondly, dolls have been used for forensic interviewing purposes when dealing with potential victims of sexual abuse.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume1/j1_1_5.htm

In today's culture, the concern about using dressup dolls for religious indoctrination does, I think, have some validity as not being suitable.

4

Frontline: Secret State of North Korea

by freemindfade in

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-north-korea/.

this is an interesting documentary just watched on netflix.

see if you can pick out all the similarities between north korea, and the high control jw.org.. defecting (leaving) not allowed.

OrphanCrow

"It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma"

I read a book recently that gives a look inside the North Korean regime from the perspective of a young boy that grows up inside that country.

The Orphan Master's Son was one of the most disturbing novels I have read.

http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2013-Fiction

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/feb/17/orphan-masters-son-adam-johnson-review

4

3 things you didn't know about Rutherford

by Coded Logic in

i never realized rutherford was so devious and delinquent.

just found this on a debate forum: .

1) forgery:after c.t.

OrphanCrow

After C.T. Russell's death, J.F. Rutherford presented a book called: "The Finished Mystery" that was allegedly written by C.T. Russell after his death. But, according to a New York court, this was a forgery: "After his death and after we were in the war they issued a seventh volume of this series, entitled "The Finished Mystery," which, under the guise of being a posthumous work of Pastor Russell...which were not written by Pastor Russell and could not have possibly been written by him...They were proved false.(1)"

The Finished Mystery was produced by two authors who apparently used Russell's notes to do so. The two authors were Clayton Woodworth and George Fisher, both directors of the WTS. Also, they were both textbook writers for the International Correspondence School. I do not think that Rutherford ever claimed authorship of The Finished Mystery.

36

Rasputin and Serums and Herbs--Oh My!

by rebel8 in

i have written a blog post about the dubs and their scorn of modern medicine and rasputin, while simultaneously touting unproven, dangerous cures.. i wonder what it is about a fake remedy that makes jws believe in it or scorn it?.

OrphanCrow

In school, IIRC, they said Rasputin would take the child alone into closed rooms for hours and not disclose what was done. I've always wondered if he was transfusing (which is actually not too difficult to learn--even children infuse themselves). He had the wealth of the family at his disposal--he could have paid for the blood and snuck it in by pretending it was some mystical item.

I am not discounting your theory that blood transfusions may have been involved in Alexei's care. However, the likelihood of Rasputin administering transfusions to the prince in the limited time that he was left alone with him, is unlikely. First off, he would have had to take equipment in with him - and i suppose he could have hid that under his robes. But, that would result in contamination and risk of infection. Along with the inherent risks involved with a procedure of this type that would have been used in an 'arm to arm' procedure of that era:

Not only would that kind of procedure be difficult to do by yourself, it would also be time consuming. Blood transfusion technology was rudimentary in the early days of the 20th century - blood typing was first discovered in 1901.

And then, complicate the procedure by the resulting needle marks which would have to be explained, an overly attentive mother, and a child who revealed everything in his world happenings to his tightly knit family...I find the blood transfusion theory to be somewhat weak, even though not discountable.

The most telling incident that did not involve blood transfusions, was the one of the most serious, that occurred in 1912. It is this incident that was supposedly 'cured' by Rasputin's telegram. I find the notion that Alexei's blood disorder to be one that is characterized by spontaneous remission to be a compelling one, especially as there are few accounts of bleeding episodes after that time.

The mystery of the Romanov family and the last prince of Russia, is receiving some closure due to advances in forensics, yet there will always remain the myths and legends associated with that period in history. Interestingly enough, the entire family has now be raised to sainthood in the Russian Orthodox Church. That is quite the distinction for a family who was murdered in cold blood while all their relatives looked on from a safe distance.

What I find interesting about the Watchtower's slant/bias on their interpretation of history surrounding Rasputin, is that they fail to see the irony in their own position towards blood. Just like Rasputin, the WTS has turned their back on the medical community, and instead, has asked their members to put their faith in some old outdated religious belief. If anything, the Watchtower Society is today's Rasputin.