Posts by OneEyedJoe

27

I want to know what celebrations JWs don't consider pagan?

by Chook in

i could only think of weddings and wedding anniversaries .

OneEyedJoe

I don't think they could regard Thanksgiving as pagan since it was inaugurated by Christians, but it's still against the rules. Really, the whole "it's pagan objection" is just an excuse to isolate JWs from non-JW family members.

Yeah, thanksgiving isn't considered pagan. But they cast it as a holiday designed to promote national pride and it is therefore banned under the "no part of this world" clause. If it ain't one thing it's the other.

The only real structured celebrations that I ever knew of as a JW were anniversaries and graduations. All the others were either pagan, nationalistic (memorial day, labor day, 4th of july, etc - I never knew of anyone who dared even have friends over to grill on those days) or put too much emphasis on a person and bordered on creature worship, or some combination thereof.

I refuse to list the memorial as a celebration. It wasn't and isn't.

22

I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

OneEyedJoe

I think differentiation is probably more a symptom than a cause. Cults are lead by an authoritarian regime that typically seeks to inflate their sense of importance and control their followers. How are they to show that they're god's divine channel if not by changing doctrine somewhat? Religions that aren't cults probably have more mainstream views just because they don't seek to control their followers so there's less incentive to going out and inventing new doctrine - they just follow whatever is the norm and don't place nearly as much importance on it.

It also seems that you're unnecessarily restricting yourself to cults based on christianity. There are cults that don't have any doctrine that relates to christianity (therapy cults, pyramid/investing scheme cults, etc) but it's not that fact that makes them a cult because there are other groups that have a similar format/goal but are healthy (healthy therapy groups, normal investing clubs, etc).

Furthermore when a cult becomes mainstream and begins to shed some of its control (the early catholic church and even early christianity seem to have been cults in their day) the doctrine necessarily has to be viewed a little less stringently because the only way to prevent differences of opinion on doctrine is to exert cult-like control on followers. As the control fades the doctrine becomes fuzzier and drifts to more mainstream teachings that most everyone can agree on and avoids ones that are more contentious.

15

Australia Take 5: “I was sexually abused by a JW elder as a child”

by darkspilver in

take 5 is a popular weekly 'women's magazine' based in australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/take_5_(magazine).

the following 1,100 word story is from their website - don't know if it's in the printed version.....take 5, may 5, 2017.

OneEyedJoe

I don't get it. What does a tin of Milo have to do with her situation? How did it trigger her memory?

Small details from a traumatic memory can trigger PTSD. Maybe the abuse happened somewhere and there was a tin of Milo in view and seeing it again triggers that memory. Maybe in an attempt to not be 'present' for the abuse she focused on something on the shelf that caught her eye. Point is, life for someone that's put through this sort of abuse can be challenging in ways that someone that hasn't lived it would be entirely clueless to.

19

JW.org Childrens Page: Expanding My Circle Of Friends

by pale.emperor in

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/teenagers/worksheets/expanding-circle-of-friends/.

some things of note here, it looks to me that they're encouraging young ones to befriend older people and "people not like them".

could this be because many of the young ones are now leaving?.

OneEyedJoe

This isn't a new thing...I remember growing up in the 80s and 90s kids were often encouraged to befriend adults (often specifically the older folks) in the congregation. To me this always felt like it was sorta along the same lines as the whole "we don't need birthdays/christmas because we get presents all year and it's always a surprise!" in this case its more "there's no lack of people to befriend, we can make friends with all these old people!" Kids in the cult will often (especially these days as things thin out) feel socially restricted and I think this is an attempt to get them to replace friends of their own age with cultists.

It is definitely curious advice to give right now when you look at all the child abuse issues they're having, though.

40

Do you air on the side of caution?

by compound complex in

well, that would be an airer.

it's all in how we hear the spoken word.

when a little boy, one fellow thought "world peace" was "whirled peas.

OneEyedJoe

For all intensive purposes, I try to air on the side of caution. Unfortunately I think this has caused a lot of people to start taking me for granite.

51

Bearded students on Ministry school?

by NikL in

jw
friends

so at last nights ministry school we had 2...yes that's right two that had parts and gave them with beards.. i found it interesting.

i thought the consensus was that you couldn't have any extra privileges if you wore one.. maybe the school is different?.

anyway, anybody else seen this in the u.s.?.

OneEyedJoe

I had drinks with my MS brother a while ago and he excitedly (and without me asking anything about the cult) reported that some other congregations were letting men with beards read the watchtower on stage. What a revolution this was! He was hopeful that it would migrate to his congregation so he could have a beard.

I guess I've finally gotten some distance from this cult...it really struck me how absurd and childish all this was.

56

"There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

by unsure in

(for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

“there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

OneEyedJoe

The statement that there's evidence of a creator if you look for it betrays a lack of understanding of how one should go about arriving at correct conclusions. The point isn't to look for evidence of what you want to be true, the point is to decide what's true based on the evidence that's available. Finding evidence for something that you want to be true is called confirmation bias.

22

Those married to "still in" JWs

by NikL in

jw
friends

kind of got into it with my jw wife last night for the first time in a long time.. i try to not engage in conversations about doctrinal matters unless she asks me which she did.. anyway, i wont go into details but of course i am "not going to change her mind" and "why is it that you can't see when very smart people can?

" yada yada yada.

you probably can imagine.. it makes me so depressed.

OneEyedJoe

The worst part of it is that I felt totally fuzzy in my head. Like I couldn't argue my point well. I began to actually feel like "what is wrong with me?"

First off, cults work very hard to instill this sort of self-doubt into their victims, especially those that are having doubts about the cult. Keep reading, researching and soul-searching until you have complete self-assurance that you're of right mind, pure motivation and are certain that it is not "the truth." Do whatever it takes to get there. Just know that you're not alone, and that the way you feel right now has been ingrained into you for the purposes of control.

If your marriage has any chance of success you're going to have to communicate well. Big surprise there. Talk to your wife. When she attacks your motives (perhaps without even realizing it, i.e. "why do you go if it's just to criticize?") point out what she's said, how you've interpreted it and how that makes you feel. If you're going to support her, you need to let her know that and make sure that this is what she wants. You're not a martyr for making sacrifices for someone if they don't want what you're giving them, so make sure it's what she wants before you make the sacrifice.

With any luck you'll be able to get your wife to trust you, trust that you're motivated by a love of truth (real truth) and a concern for your (and her) well-being. If you can get to that point, you've made a huge stride. I never was able to get my wife to trust anything I said, though, as she would fall back on insisting that my thinking was being manipulated by the devil and I couldn't be honest about my motivations even if I wanted to, etc. etc. That's what eventually lead to the end of my marriage. I hope that your wife will be more reasonable (and less superstitious) than mine was and that you two will be able to (re)establish trust and communication to get through this. If you're able to do that, then you've got a decent chance of waking her up eventually, too.

15

I try not to judge people by appearance..

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

but i am not sure how.. any advice?.

OneEyedJoe

As others have said, making snap judgements about other people is normal, healthy, and in our best interests. We've persisted as a species by being able to efficiently make quick assessments of people and situations that help us to avoid threats to our survival. Doing this should not be demonized nor should it be avoided. The problem, in my opinion, is when people make snap judgements and then refuse to change their opinion based on further information. The goal should be to always make decisions based on the information available. Sometimes when little information is available, those decisions will be overly risk averse or otherwise less than ideal. The key is to make sure that you're using all the information that's available instead of using the first bit of information you got, forming an opinion, and then basing all future decisions on that opinion (and whatever later information is acquired to support it). The human tendency to avoid changing one's mind to be in line with late evidence is one of our greatest weaknesses and I think we would all do well to fight this instinct.

55

Looking forward to going to Memorial this year!

by kpop in

jw
friends

i have some tricks to play.

i know it may sound childish but i feel that creating havoc and forcing the memorial to be postponed will be the highlight of the night!

wish me luck!.

OneEyedJoe

I feel like your time would be better spent staying home - at least then you're contributing to the slow and steady discouragement of JWs by virtue of the decline in numbers - this affects ALL JWs, not just the ones in a particular congregation. Going and causing havoc will just play in to their persecution complex and make them ever more sure that they're instruments of god and being attacked by the devil.