TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking (page 17)

I’m hoping you’re still going to check this thread. I wanted to post a reply to you sooner--before the topic gets buried too far--but I have been very busy, and I wanted to put up the thoughtful kind of reply your post deserves. It’s been very long since you addressed anything specifically to me. Considering we’ve been on opposite sides of issues in the same thread before, I was wondering what that meant (my material wasn’t worthy of a reply, or you were sparing me a lashing, or you simply weren’t reading my replies). I don’t like to just slap something together, or give "knee-jerk" reactions, especially to important issues addressed specifically to me. I invariably wind up wishing I had included something else, or had explained things differently.

you are always so collegial in debates

I can’t find a definition of the word collegial. I’m going to assume it’s a derivative of colleague that you made up. I’m not much into debating, actually. Amiable discussion, absolutely yes. You may find this strange, but if I met you (or Terry or any number of people here who would disagree with me), I could easily shake hands with you, sit down at a coffee house, and discuss all kinds of ideas over lattes. I’m fascinated with abstract concepts and enjoy discussions, but at some point, I would want to move into the concrete--the practical. After all, that is where we really live. You would find that I don’t leave God in the abstract world, but that He is very much a part of who I am.

When I use the term "second-guessing," I’m talking about reflecting on past choices that had unfavorable outcomes. Sometimes, our choices of action are instinctive reactions more than actual decisions. We have only a moment to act, so we follow an impulse. Other times, we follow the only possible course of action under the circumstances. In other cases, the choices seem to be about minor events, but the consequences turn out to have a major effect, but we could never have foreseen that. There is usually no second-guessing about these actions because we can say we did the best we could under the circumstances. Occasionally, though, we come to a real fork in the road of life--a time when a decision is called for where we could legitimately go one of at least two different ways. We face a situation where we have to make a choice of some kind. Now, if we make our choice of action, and we are later unhappy with the consequences of our decision, we may ask, "What if I had taken a different option?" However, if I trust in a God who knows all the circumstances, all the variables, and the effects and results of all possible courses of action, AND if I believe this God cares about me and wants to benefit me, then I should seek out His guidance and wisdom and follow His leading. If I do, then whatever happens or however it may look to me, I have confidence that I took the best course of action. I don’t have to wonder if another choice would have worked out better.

It looks like you’re referring to something different: like you’re asking if I would rethink my ideas about God. I’m always open to new information, and I really do understand the basic atheist positions. I will even go so far as to say there are plausible, possible alternatives to faith-based explanations. But that’s all they are. They require assumptions and presuppositions, and rely on circumstantial evidence. That’s just not good enough for me. (I realize faith-based explanations have their own problems.)

Tetra, it’s really not my deliberate intention to bring anybody over to my way of thinking. My objective is to present what I feel are legitimate alternatives to objections to living by faith (an example of Terry’s mysticism). I realize life experiences and interpretations of them are a low form of proof. I just want to show that some things are possible, because they’ve happened with me, and it may be useful to someone considering their own choice.

I’d like to give another example of what I see as God’s working in my life. I grew up in a household where the word "love" wasn’t used. Not that love didn’t exist, my parents just weren’t the "touchy-feely" type, so there was no display of affection either. As could be expected, I picked that up in my life. In the relationship with my mother, I was perfectly comfortable with that, and there was nothing from within or without (i.e., advice from others) that challenged that. Then, at about age 30, when I really started to be open to God’s leading, I felt impressed to alter this course. It didn’t come in the form of a command, but rather a recommendation, like advice--"You should do this." There was no sense that there would be dire consequences if I didn’t, only loss and regret. Well, it was uncomfortable, but this 30-year-old man learned to tell his mother that he loved her and hugged her for the first time in maybe two decades. Nothing spectacular happened, but it was good for both of us. I continued on this way until she passed away a few years later. When she was gone, I wasn’t left with the regret over things that weren’t said before it was too late (some people will understand what I mean). My regrets were that I didn’t do it sooner, and that I didn’t do it for my dad who passed ten years earlier (there’s another "life lesson" story in that, but I won’t go into it).

You see, anybody who would try to convince me God doesn’t exist and doesn't care would have to explain about that, or why, when my wife and daughter are having an argument in the room next to me, and I pray fervently but silently, suddenly there is peace and reconciliation between them (relying on the mystical again), or why, when I call someone I haven’t talked to in a long while, the person tells me "You listened to your (heavenly) Father." Someone would have to explain not just one or two random events; someone would have to explain my life, or at least the last 40 years (since I made my initial move towards God). See, most of what happens is not flashy or useless, but rather things that have had positive effects for my life and others. As sure as I’m writing this, I can tell you there is no way I would have done what I did with my mother, or any number of other things, if I didn’t care about God, or believe that He didn’t care about me.

I’m not offering this as proof--that's not my purpose with this, and I don’t expect it to change anything, but I have to speak up for the value God and the Bible have had in my life, just as you are compelled to take your stand (as you explained once).

Take care,

Mike

Narkissos

hmike,

I just wish to thank you for your posts. In a personal, thoughtful and modest way (I mean, far from the fake triumphalist "testimony," e.g. "I trusted the Lord and then ran from victory to victory"), they nicely express, I feel, what I tried to point out too abstractly with the term "fatalism". That is, a specific outlook on life which may look silly from an outsider's standpoint but makes subjective sense and in turn produces objective benefits.

And this comment is not to suggest that I have been nearly as wise as you were. I was definitely not. But that's nothing to regret either.

hmike

Narkissos,

Thank you for the kind words, especially as you are one of the most respected members of the forum.

No reply from TS. Could it be that he is at a loss for words?

Terry

Thank you for the kind words, especially as you are one of the most respected members of the forum.

Narkissos is always a welcomed poster; that's for sure.

TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking

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