Here's an interesting link, about 60 years too short though.
ITHINKISEE Update 8/11/2005: More w/ wife & some questions. . .
by ithinkisee 48 Replies latest members private
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stillajwexelder
Babylon The Great Has Fallen: Gods Kingdom Rules is not on the 2004 CD ROM
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ithinkisee
BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN book actually misquotes a bible dictionary and says that the dictionary verifies the WT years for Zedekiah ... but it doesn't! And AlanF sent me the scans to PROVE IT!)
On page 134 the book BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN says:
Nebuchadnezzar came against Jerusalem the second time, to punish the rebel king [Jehoiakim]. That was in 618 B.C. -- See Harper's Bible Dictionary, by M. S. and J. L. Miller, edition of 1952, page 306, under "Jehoiakim."
However, Harper's Bible Dictionary actually says that Jehoiakim reigned for 11 years, from 609-598 B.C., and that
Jeremiah's prophecy was fulfilled with the arrival of Nebuchadnezzar (II Kings 24:1), whom Jehoiakim served three years, but against whom he at length rebelled. The might of Chaldea, pressed heavily against the capital and the king died or possibly was assassinated (II Kings 24:6). He was succeeded (598 B.C.) by his young son Jehoiachin, who in his father's stead was carried captive to Babylon (597 B.C., II Kings 24:15), while Zedekiah, brother of Jehoiakim, became Nebuchadnezzar's puppet ruler.
More info here: http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/gentile1.htm AlanF sent me the actual scans of this bible dictionary. I can send to anyone else who wants them.
(Thanks AlanF! You rock! No matter what they say in that OTHER thread about you!)
-ithinkisee
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Billygoat
ithinkisee,
Can you email me the scans? I know this will be an issue once I have the opportunity to unwitness to my family. My dad was always a stickler for historic details like this. I'm hoping to draw him in a conversation some day regarding this topic.
Thanks,
Andi
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stevenyc
ithinkisee,
This should help you out. CDLI is the Cuneiform digital libray initiative of UCLA in cooperation with the Max Plank institute of Berlin. They are documenting all the cuneiform tablets available.
There main site is http://cdli.ucla.edu.
Here's where you want to go:
http://cdli.ucla.edu/staff/englund/m104websubmissions/nebuchadnezzar/nebuchadnezzar.html
steve
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undercover
Good thread(s), Ithink. Maybe these threads could be on a "best of" list.
I noticed this:
She still came back to secular history vs reliable bible chronology. Several times I would make points and she would say, "But that's SECULAR history vs RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY."
I'm not going to offer any advice...you've got the situation well in hand, and excellent support from people more learned in this are than me...but I had a family member who used the same argument about Bible chronology. I finally said, there is no Bible chronology, it's man's chronology or interpretation based on what's written in the Bible. There are no dates in the Bible. Without secular chronology, one would not be able to come up with any dates for what happened in ancient history using the Bible alone. Based on that fact, there is no Bible chronology.
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stevenyc
ithinkisee,the 'rosetta stone' for your argument is at the british mueum. Here it is:
steve
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rebel8
Hi
I have no information to help you because I never was a bible scholar and intentionally blocked out most of the doctrinal crap years ago. I just wanted to say I am following all of your posts and really enjoy them. It sounds like you are really making some progress, which is undoubtedly difficult to do. I'm willing to bet your story is giving a lot of hope to people with loved ones still "in".
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Jeffro
ithinkisee,
How can I get rid of Josephus as a reckoning force quickly and easily?
As far as Josephus goes, the Society likes to make it look like he supports them but he doesn't really. The following is a quote from an unpublished article I wrote on 607:
The Society claims that the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus agrees with their interpretation of the 70 years [footnote removed]. [In the Appendix of their publication, "Let Your Kingdom Come"] they convincingly quote Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews Book XI, Chapter 1 (incorrectly cited as Book X in their publication): “all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years,” and Against Apion Book I, Chapter 19: “our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus” (formatting theirs). It is true that the temple was in a state of disrepair for a period of 70 years from 587BC to 517BC, and this is likely to what Josephus referred. In their quote from Against Apion, the Society places emphasis on the word desolate; when emphasis is shifted to the word during, it becomes evident that Josephus may have meant that the desolation was only for a part of that period. While the Society’s reasoning on these quotes may seem reasonable, Against Apion Book I, Chapter 21 pointedly states: “Nebuchadnezzar, in the eighteenth year of his reign, laid our temple desolate, and so it lay in that state of obscurity for fifty years; but that in the second year of the reign of Cyrus its foundations were laid, and it was finished again in the second year of Darius,” (formatting added). This clearly indicates beyond any doubt that Josephus is in agreement with other archaeological sources, and in disagreement with the Watchtower Society. When confronted with this information, the Society’s response is that Josephus is not always reliable; thus by their own reasoning, quoting Josephus to support their interpretation is meaningless.
The Society also claims (in "Let Your Kingdom Come") that Josephus indicates that Berossus is wrong where he says that Daniel and his companians were taken captive in Nebuchadnezzar's first (accession) year. Their claim is that "Josephus states that in the year of the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar conquered all of Syria-Palestine “excepting Judea.”" They reason that because Judah was excepted from being conquered that no captives were taken. However, there is no requirement for Judea to be conquered for some captives to be taken. The number of captives taken may have been too small to be considered an exile.
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jaredg
ITIS,
i come to JWDF every day to see if there are any new develpments w/ your wife. i wish i could be of more help. your sotry is very intriguing. i wish you the best of luck!
jared