ITHINKISEE Update 8/11/2005: More w/ wife & some questions. . .

by ithinkisee 48 Replies latest members private

• 

  stevenyc

  
  ithinkisee,

  Also, check this out: http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/chron00.html

  Livius is a non-commercial website on ancient history. Since 1996, it has been maintained by Jona Lendering from Amsterdam, Holland. He read history at Leiden University (where he graduated in 1993), specialized in Mediterranean culture at the Amsterdam Free University (until 1996), and worked at excavations in Holland and Greece. After teaching methodology and theory at the Free University, he worked for some time as an archivist for the Dutch government. He is currently a freelance teacher (ancient and Dutch history). The standard edition is A.K. Grayson, Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles (1975 =ABC), but in the past 30 years, many improved readings have been proposed (literature). Therefore, Irving Finkel of the British Museum (London) and Bert van der Spek of the Free University of Amsterdam (Holland) are preparing a new edition, Babylonian Chronicles of the Hellenistic Period (= BCHP). On this website, maintained by Jona Lendering, they present their ongoing research.

  Check the ABC3 tablet translation. also the Uruk King List.

  steve
• 

  ithinkisee

  I finally said, there is no Bible chronology, it's man's chronology or interpretation based on what's written in the Bible. There are no dates in the Bible. Without secular chronology, one would not be able to come up with any dates for what happened in ancient history using the Bible alone. Based on that fact, there is no Bible chronology.

  I will use this line of reasoning when it gets down to the wire. This is good. In the meantime I am just trying to get her to see the clear difference ... then I hopefully will sum up.

  SteveNYC: Thanks for the links! Those are perfect! Keep em coming if you have any more!

  I would still love to find some good online references for business documents unearthed in neo-babylon. I'm still looking, so let me know if you all find anything.

  You guys are awesome.

  -ithinkisee
• 

  stevenyc

  ithinkisee : I would still love to find some good online references for business documents unearthed in neo-babylon

  Is there anything specific you are looking for. The links I've sent you have loads already. If there is something specific, I'll try and find a translation for you.

  : Thanks for the links

  Hey, thats what we're here for!

  steve
• 

  stevenyc

  
  

  I finally said, there is no Bible chronology, it's man's chronology or interpretation based on what's written in the Bible. There are no dates in the Bible. Without secular chronology, one would not be able to come up with any dates for what happened in ancient history using the Bible alone. Based on that fact, there is no Bible chronology

  Not exactly true. The bible does date, based on assension(sp?) years. These can be cross-referenced with the cuneiforms. What dosen't match up is the WTS chronology.

  steve
• 

  ithinkisee

  Is there anything specific you are looking for. The links I've sent you have loads already. If there is something specific, I'll try and find a translation for you.

  Don't get me wrong ... those links totally ROCK!

  But ...

  Many of those translations of those documents merely state xx day of xx month of the xx year of XXXX's reign. Then the archeologist puts a year in parenthesis beside it.

  For instance, the ABC3 doc at:
  
  http://www.livius.org/ne-nn/nineveh/nineveh02.html

  says:

  The eleventh year [615-614]:

  The twelfth year [614-613]:

  When my wife sees this she will say, "See, this is what I mean ... this is secular chronology vs RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY. Where did they get those YEARS from? Not the Bible!"

  My response is "Well, the Society's years aren't in the bible either. The difference is there are thousands of docs supporting the accepted years, and none supporting the Society's claimed years."

  But I am not sure how much longer I can use that one before it falls on deaf ears.

  Any suggestions would be most helpful.

  Thanks,

  -ithinkisee
• 

  stevenyc

  OK I got it.

  Remember its the ascension year we're dealing with. The dates didn't come into existance until the late 300s early 400s when the Roman empire took Christanity as the enforsed religion.

  http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/babylon/babylonia.html: For two centuries, Babylon was one of the most important cities in the Achaemenid Empire, and the Babylonians shared in the ups and downs of the Persian monarchy. The Astronomical Diaries (which document the entire period of 652 to 60 BCE) inform us about political events in the city and tell us about the prices of products, so that we can start to write an economical history of Babylonia

  http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diaries/astronomical_diaries.html list the diaries

  steve
• 

  ithinkisee

  Great SteveNYC ... great!

  The dates didn't come into existance until the late 300s early 400s when the Roman empire took Christanity as the enforsed religion.

  Is there an offchance I would be able to find a reference to that somewhere online?

  Thanks,

  -ithinkisee
• 

  TheListener

  Oh my God, you're posts are giving me knots in my stomach. I can't wait each day to see what's happening. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  ok better now.

  Babylon the Great book by the WTS was published in 1963 and revised and reprinted in 1981. I didn't think of checking older CD roms to see if it used to be on there, but I will. I doubt it was.

  The book, as far as I can see, doesn't give any spectacular explanation about 607 vs. 587 or reliable bible chronology. It does, however, go through the entire history of assyria, babylon and jerusalem's destruction. Using dates (as fit in with WTS chronology). Lots and lots of dates. So many that it is almost overwhelming as you read it. Since there is no real explanation of the 20 years in archaelogy circles the society can't really offer one.

  You know I've been paying attention to your situation, especially since it mirrors my own so closely, but I can't remember if you and your wife have actually looked at the scriptures used by the society to show 537 +70 years equals 607. Have you read Jeremiah, 2 chronicles, and the others? Show her how the 70 years affects all the nations in the area not just judah; show her that the 70 years ends with Babylon's destruction, not 2 years later with the arrival of the refugees. Show her the footnote in the Isaiah book that talks about different nations coming under babylon at different points during the 70 years; and how that the 70 years evidently means the length of babylon's reign (or something like that).

  That might take the heat off of the bible vs. chronology and put it to the WT versus the WT or the WT versus the Bible.
• 

  TheListener

  OK found the Isaiah book quote I like so much:

  Isaiah book 1, page 253 footnote: "Evidently 70 years represents Babylon's period of greatest domination."

  Referring to the destruction and 70 year desolation of Tyre. They admit that different nations come under that domination at different times on page 253 also.
• 

  stevenyc

  Okay, there's a bunch of dating systems to take into consideration. I'm working right now, but will try an write it up for you in a bit. - with refs.

  steve