Finally broke down and talked to my wife about 607 BC. (page 6)

Cygnus

AlanF is your best resource for this stuff, if he has the time right now. I remember once 7-8 years ago he found that the Babylon book cited a secular book for its dating and the secular book basically said the opposite of what the Babylon book said it said! Alan offered to snail mail anybody who wanted it a hardcopy of what he found and I requested one and he did mail it to me, faithful old Alan.

tetrapod, i love your posts and because of my injury I dont always have correct syntax, spelling, grammar and punctuation, but man, and I mean this in the kindest way possible, the possessive form of "it" is "its", not "it's" which is a conjunction of "it is." Pedantic, I know, I apologize. I do love your posts and have copied and saved a few to harddisk. :)

ithinkisee

I remember once 7-8 years ago he found that the Babylon book cited a secular book for its dating and the secular book basically said the opposite of what the Babylon book said it said! Alan offered to snail mail anybody who wanted it a hardcopy of what he found and I requested one and he did mail it to me, faithful old Alan.

I found a reference to that in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/10674/1.ashx

I may hit Alan F up for that. ...

-ithinkisee

Terry

Terry,
How do you suggest I change my argument that the WTS is grossly misapplying prophecy to their own ends, and instead change it to throwing out the whole bible as anything reliable?
I am open for suggestions that won't undermine any current (seeming) progress.

Briefly, here is my view.

1.JW's say it is all about what the Bible says. By demonstrating the Bible isn't about anything and never was you cut off their oxygen flow and leave them with nothing but human opinion based on a claim which is unsubstantiated.

2.This makes them panic. They ask, "Where can I go?" (meaning which OTHER religion.)

3.You assure them they don't need an umbilical cord as an adult. God is perfectly capable of dealing with them as a person if he exists. If Jesus is real he is not much of a mediator if they ignore him and seek out the opinions of a group of booksellers.

4.They will protest this leaves them vulnerable to being without any morality! They crave somebody with a big Armageddon stick threatening them if they go wrong.

5.Demonstrate to them that morality is very practical and the law of the land is a big enough stick to keep them in line should they feel the urge to rob a 7-11 instead of going door to door.

But, all of the above is predicated on the idea that JW's actually THINK. They don't. Not anymore. What they do is wait for cues in your language and they REACT certain ways as you trigger their conditioned behavior.

Like prizefighters they react in a split second as you punch; they counterpunch. JW's have no original thoughts in an argument or debate because they are all about REACTION.

By sticking to just one subject: the Bible, you cut off all their escape routes.

However, what you most probably need first is to read at least WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? by Friedman.

Learn the facts and the actual history and ask the JW you are speaking to to verify what they ar saying with GENUINE scholarly texts and not just JW propaganda writing.

Try this: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/bible.html

Remember, if you say nothing challenging that contains key words you leave the counterpunch reactions out of the conversation.

Buy the book and read it. Consider it AS A JW would see it.

I gave it to my friend Johnny and he read it.

I didn't ask him any questions at all. It made quite an impression.

But, he is cognatively dissonant.

I just plant seed after seed and sooner or later his intelligent identity will come to the surface gasping for breath like Neo in his placenta-pod in THE MATRIX.

I wish you well.

Terry

ithinkisee

The misquoted book in "Babylon The Great Has Fallen" book is:

Harper's Bible Dictionary, by M. S. and J. L. Miller, edition of 1952

If anyone has a copy of this please send me a PM.

Thanks,

-ithinkisee

vitty

I think you should get her to think you are BOTH on this journey of discovery together and that it isnt YOU who is questioning the society, but that you are as "surprised" and then shocked as she is when you find out the "truth" together. And be careful with her father, it should be a interesting discussion on some information you have found, try not to be critical just sound perplexed with the discrepencies!

Just my thoughts goodluck

Oh and I agree with Billygoat

ithinkisee

AlanF made the scans of the Harper's Bible Dictionary available to me .... so I downloaded them. I am hoping that when her father comes over to talk about it that he brings the Babylon The Great Has Fallen! book so I can use those scans.

I am hoping those scans will help me to turn the conversation from what it is now (Watchtower Chronology vs Biblical/Secular Chronology) to a new conversation (blatant dishonesty of the Society in supporting their chronology). This will lead to their claims of predicting 30 years before 1914 that Christ would take kingly power, etc.

With my wife so far I have gone the "perplexed" route.

When it gets to a point where we clearly differ, I say "THAT'S what I can't figure out. The Society says 'such-and-such' but both secular history and bible history say 'such-and-such'."

I can clearly see the cognitive dissonance in my wife's face when I say it. But so far the conversations have NOT been heated or tense.

I have a lot of information I haven't shown to her yet ... so it remains to be seen how long I can hold off the more tense exchanges.

Thanks everyone, for the recommendations so far. They have been most helpful.

-ithinkisee

ithinkisee

It may be worth considering that through this you give your wife extra attention, love and affection. Completely separate from discussing such a deep topic. Since your wife is sweet, genuine, and loving, then having you there by her side is probably very important to her. Continue strengthening that bond in your marriage...should things start to turn south with her father, then at least she knows that you are there next to her. I know it may sound cliche or patronizing, but nothing makes me feel closer to my husband than when he gives me undivided attention and time and reminds me how wonderful our marriage is. He really makes me feel like he's got my back...which in turn, strengthens my desire to "have his back". If you are banding close together, do not let this argument get in the way of that. Build the relationship as the foundation...the debate about this cult's inaccurate chronology won't be able to shake it. Should her father or anyone else for that matter, say that you're pointing her towards apostate thinking, she'll be in shock that they think that. You are the loving, loyal, attentive husband that no other sister in the hall has. How could she let them get away with thinking that?

I am working on that Billygoat. Last night I brought her flowers and a card where I really just wrote what I felt: how much I love her and how proud I am of her as my wife and friend and how she is handling the crap with her family like a champ. On top of that we have a move to a different state coming up and just the regular day to day stuff.

She started crying after she read the card. It meant a lot.

Now I guess I need to make sure I keep it up. Since our relationship was getting weaker and weaker up until a few months ago I have been working hard to be more consistent with the love and attention.

Thanks for the advice,

-ithinkisee

Billygoat

Last night I brought her flowers and a card where I really just wrote what I felt: how much I love her and how proud I am of her as my wife and friend and how she is handling the crap with her family like a champ. On top of that we have a move to a different state coming up and just the regular day to day stuff.
She started crying after she read the card. It meant a lot.

That is exactly what I'm talking about! This move in the midst of the storm of this research may be a good thing. AND an easy way to fade! Ithinkisee, I'm excited for you! I have a feeling that you two are going to escape this. Keep up being the great husband you are. Keep reminding her what a blessing you think she is. She'll stick by you when she realizes that you are giving her the Genuine Love...not the JWs. Before you know it, you'll both be out, attending apostofests, swilling Guiness with the rest of us.

Best wishes and good luck!

Andi

ithinkisee

Thanks Andi ... I hope it does.

The war is far from over ... but I think the more I can get into her head before the "heated" exchanges happen (I hope they don't ... but it may) the better.

Thanks for all the support. I won't be talking to her dad for a couple of weeks ... but I am getting my Babylon The Great book stuff ready in the meantime.

-ithinkisee

Hellrider

TD:

Actually to be more accurate the JW's have two pivotal dates of the Old Testament because Every event prior to the captivity is dated from 607BC.
When I say "every event" I mean clear back to the creation of Adam; So for anyone to count forward using the JW dates for the Israelite kings means nothing because the JW's have already dated all their reigns by counting backward from 607BC The "deck" is "stacked."

Ha ha, I didn`t know that. LoL, that`s really cheating, if they use Israeli kings-chronology based on that, without mentioning it, that must be the most dishonest thing I ever heard. That`s just so dishonest, it probably beats anything else they have ever come up with. God, what a bunch of con-artists they are.

Finally broke down and talked to my wife about 607 BC.

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