Conditional love

by noidea 77 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Richie

  Dear Seven,
  Let me first mention to you that I am terribly sorry for the heavy predicament you're experiencing not being able to share your love with your dying mother the way you should be!! You have a natural right to be with her as many times as you desire and that love connection should never be taken away from anybody existing...
  I also understand your feelings of despair to the point of showing visible anger and disgust and it may be difficult at times to be above reproach in this instance, yet I dare ask you to restrain yourself - however difficult this may be - we are all hurting in a similar way Seven... Let us do out utmost to be an "example" to those who are "imprisoned" in a network of false compassion from which there is hardly an escape.
  We all have to stick together and this way we will stay strongly bonded to each other as we all see people suffer because of the rigidity, narrow-mindedness, even arrogance of men in charge, elders and others, or recognizing the hurtful effects of certain edicts of the organization that did not rest on a solid scriptural foundation.
  I must say however that RealElder shows courage, more than I must say the vast majority of elders who in their heart recognize the wrongness of extreme shunning. The hard fact is, however, that within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses today there is simply no possibility for such discussion to take place. Anyone's attempting to do so would be viewed as showing a rebellious spirit and would only result in further disfellowshipping. That's why one has to give a measure of respect to RealElder insofar as he is trying to understand us who are now outside the organization showing free will as well as keeping afloat within the congregation until the time arrives for him to decide to embrace the intelligent and compassionate course to leave the Witnesses thereby causing minimal "damage" to his loved ones including his family. Please recognize that RealElder in this instance faces a serious crises of conscience and guilt until he makes his decision to freedom of will and thought..

  Richie :*)

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
• 

  RealElder

  seven006, I have no delusion as to my ability to help people on this board. I am simply making personal comments regarding how I feel we (JW's) should treat people. You have been hurt by the attitude of your parents towards you. Since I have no idea what the story is I'll have to assume that the breakup was very severe in nature, I don't think you simply said "I don't want to be a witness any more" and never spoke about your decision again. If that is all you did I have no explanation for your mothers behavior. I will tell you that there are many active JW's who have a relationship with their children who have left the organization because they no longer believe. I also know that there are parents who can't get past that. As a parent all I can tell you is my wife and I would never do that to our children. Most of our friends who are active JW's also fel the same way. Perhaps there is a new generation of younger witnesses out there who are making up there own mind about these things??? Part of my motivation for posting now after lurking for so long is to see if there are other active JW's out there that share some of my views, are there?

  You asked [Do you immediately revert back to the watchtower societies tool of discipline at that point? Have you read one single thread on this board that you would have to say the poster deserves a life sentience of being exiled from the love of their mother and father?]

  No I don't and none of the men on the body of elders that I am on are that way either. Discipline is tough to administer and tougher to take, I always loose sleep after a judicial meeting. I have read some posts that would indicate the individual posting has some serious issues and an attitude that would probably keep me from associating with them, yet at the same time if they were close to me I wouldn't completely abandon them.

  I'm sorry but I know that nothing I say here will make you feel any better about your situation.
• 

  Billygoat

  RealElder,

  Your honesty and compassion (from the JW side of things) is refreshing! I have yet to meet a JW on this site that has those qualities. (Except for maybe troubled.) Those qualities were severely lacking in my experience. Perhaps if more elders had a heart and backbone like you, you wouldn't be losing so many like us. I look forward to reading more of your posts!

  Billygoat
• 

  RealElder

  Richie, there is discussion going on between elders. I would venture to say that as a percentage of the JW population, DF'g is down. I have no figures to back this up, only my communications with other elders tells me that not as much is going on. More people are simply "fading away" as this seems to be the path of least resistance than are DA'g themselves. Our cong. has seen 2 families take this path this year.
• 

  Ustabee

  RealElder said:
  

  No I don't and none of the men on the body of elders that I am on are that way either.

  I have to weigh in on this one, I guess. First, though, I have to sympathize with Dave's attitude on this subject. I saw this over and over during my years as JW. It stinks and a loving elder would just keep his mouth shut when he became aware of any such 'association' with family members who were DF'd. To comply with WTS direction in this matter was simply ignoring human nature and common sense.

  The BOE that I served on tried very hard to actually 'shepherd' the flock. Sometimes we even succeeded.

  The issues that many of us on this board go far beyond just the inhumane practice of shunning. It goes to:

  1. Can the WTS really claim that they are the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave?'

  2. What about all of the false prophecies uttered in the last 120 years? 1975 in particular. Would a truly spirit directed org make those kind of mistakes over and over again? And then blame the R & F for making 'wrong assumptions?

  3. What about the historical flip-flops on doctrines that have cost people their lives and loved ones? e.g., blood fractions, organ transplants, etc., etc.

  4. What about the claim of 'Holy Spirit' making the appointments in the congregations? I was an elder and I assure you, the process is not, in my opinion, totally 'Spirit' directed.

  5. What about the wobbly foundation under the '1914' chronology? If this is a false teaching, then what becomes of the rest of the WTS's interpretations?

  6. If the 'generation' definition was wrong all this time, then a lot of people have put faith in something for decades that has cost them dearly in family ties, property and economic security that cannot be replaced. (I know one brother who sold his business in the '50's and moved to 'where the need was great' and devoted the rest of his life to the WTS. The savings ran out long before his life did. He wound up in poverty, confined to a nursing home. His mind gone, he wandered away one day and was found dead two days later from hypothermia. So much for the 'new system' curing his problems.]

  Disfellowshipping policy be hanged! That is just the tip of the iceberg for most of us on this board!

  If you are here to see 'what the commotion is all about', then fine, but you will get an earful. And I hope it will make you think about a lot of things, not just DFing. I spent 22 yrs of my life faithfully serving an org that when the chips are down, just isn't what they claim to be. I'm not a person that is going to go down to the DC and picket, but if I'm asked about JW's I will certainly relate my personal experiences with them.

  This board contains a wide variety of people and opinions. There are former elders, pioneers and publishers, former Bethelites and on and on. These people are not people 'denied a position in the org' they are people who have made an honest examination of an organization they were in and made the decision to leave. It is difficult for most, because of the strong hold that the WTS has on its members. I went through months of depression following my exit, but it's over now and I am better off for being out of the JW's.
• 

  Shaneliza

  RealElder,
  I will tell you why I was Df'd. When I was 18, I realized that my life would never be my own. I would always have someone looking over my shoulder, and that I would have to be submissive to the male gender. One night I went out to a bar, with two girls I worked with. I casually mentioned it to my sister (who is a JW) the next day. That afternoon I had three elders show up at my door. (I had my own apartment, by this time.) They proceeded to sit across from me and questioned me fully about my life. Alot of their questions were of an intimate nature, and I was extremely uncomfortable. I was very intimidated by this, which is what I believe they were hoping for. But it also made me angry, so I began to miss meetings and stopped going out in service,(which I hated anyway.) Some time went by, I met the man I am now married to, and we lived together before we were married. Now I want you to tell me what horrible crime I committed. What terrible thing did I do that would justify the treatment I have received over the years? I know for a fact there are alot of JW's who sleep with their intended, before the wedding. They just weren't found out. At least I was honest about it.

  My decision to find happiness came with a huge price tag.
• 

  seven006

  Real Elder,

  First I would like to say that I did not intend to lash out personally at you the way I did and I APOLOGIZE for doing that. Several things have been building up in my life and the post from Silent Lamb's where the WT society blatantly lies about their policy just set me off and I inappropriately took it out on you and a few others. I am one of the most laid back understanding and compassionate people you will ever meet but a situation that I know for a fact is untrue and has effected my life so severely just set me off.

  I could write volumes about my feelings and experiences with the JW's but I don't want to waste your time. I have come to realize that JW's are not concerned with the truth about their religion as seen by the eyes of an ex-member. My story would definitely make you think about things you are not ready to think about. As they said in a movie and several times on this board, "you want the truth, you can't handle the truth".

  I see that you have a good heart and you are trying to make a little bit of difference in a few peoples life. That is a good thing. Maybe someday you will see the whole picture and you will have to make a few difficult choices. Until then I applaud your present efforts.

  Everybody has to do what they have to do.

  Again, I apologize if I upset you, I was just having a bad day.

  Take care,

  Dave
• 

  noidea

  Ustabee,

  I thought you had some really good points (questions) that also need to be addressed.
  I welcome comments not only from Real Elder but other Elders that may be lurking.

  Dave,
  

  My story would definitely make you think about things you are not ready to think about. As they said in a movie and several times on this board, "you want the truth, you can't handle the truth".

  keep in mind truth shall set you, or someone else free.

  Thank you to everyone posting on this topic. It is something that also plays on the minds of others, from posting I hope we all gain understanding.