Is it morally OK to try to free people from the WTS and how?

by DannyBloem 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    Hey again DannyB - I think coming out and telling them that there is no God will not help the situation at all - I left the witnesses but I still believe in God. You said that believing in a God doesn't mean he exists, likewise not believing in him doesn't make him non-existent.

    If they are very happy with others doing the thinking for them & they are not questioning, then you are going to have an extremely tough time trying to reason with them. I couldn't stand being told what to think any more, as I told the elders in my JC that 14 old men sitting in Brooklyn Bethel didn't know what *I* needed. All they said to that was that it was 14........

    Another suggestion to get them out or to start them thinking for themselves is to approach them as if you need help on say - who really are the faithful & discreet slave - let them do research, you come out with your research and compare the two - ask questions that will get them thinking. Or try use the 607bce approach which blows 1914 out the window....but do it under the guise of you need help.

  • DannyBloem
    DannyBloem

    Hi Belle,

    Thank you for your answer.

    Hey again DannyB - I think coming out and telling them that there is no God will not help the situation at all - I left the witnesses but I still believe in God. You said that believing in a God doesn't mean he exists, likewise not believing in him doesn't make him non-existent.

    Well, I would tell them the facts that means the overwhelming evidence for evolution. I do not want to discuss the existence of a God with them. But surely give them enough reasons why there is no God like the one described in the bible and that the bible is not inspired by God. What is the use to get them out of the WTS and right into the hands of some other religion? I've seen so many lifes destroyed by other religions (moslims, catolics, other christians etc.)

    If they are very happy with others doing the thinking for them & they are not questioning, then you are going to have an extremely tough time trying to reason with them. I couldn't stand being told what to think any more, as I told the elders in my JC that 14 old men sitting in Brooklyn Bethel didn't know what *I* needed. All they said to that was that it was 14........

    Yes I feel the same. I want to think for themselves. I know that with most of them I do not stand a change. Whatever I'll tell. They just do not hear it if it is not from the GB.

    Another suggestion to get them out or to start them thinking for themselves is to approach them as if you need help on say - who really are the faithful & discreet slave - let them do research, you come out with your research and compare the two - ask questions that will get them thinking. Or try use the 607bce approach which blows 1914 out the window....but do it under the guise of you need help.
    That is a bit hard to ask 'who is realy the slave' as an elder right. They would suspect something.... But maybe in some cases. I am thinking of the huge efidence that there was no global flood. This is easy to prove scientifically. Some will maybe not ignore this with the notion:'all scientist are from the devil'. Then if the flood did not happen and Jezus told it did.... And I think the UN disaster is a very sensitive and usefull subject to bring up. It is hard to ignore and easy to verify. Danny
  • greendawn
    greendawn

    It's better to prove to them that the WTS as a religion is no good by educating them in the details of its history, it has clearly been deceiving and exploiting its members for over a century now.

    As for the theory of evolution a deist can see in it as many holes as an atheist in a Creator God concept.

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    John Doe,
    Apology accepted and I understand now. Honest mistakes are just that---honest mistakes.

    Unless you have found the perfect religion (which is a oxy-moron), why? If their happy, leave them be. Otherwise you might have to deal with a friend who falls into depression, or worse and wish you just left it alone.

    Free to Be,

    What about the scores of those JWs who are unhappy? What about all those who are depressed, burnt out, stressed out, tired out, slaving for a book publishing company that is masquerading as a religion----and they don't even realize WHY they feel so down?

    The JW life is full-------but not fulfilling. Being a slave to the WTS has absolutely nothing to do with being a slave of Christ. The old-timer JWs are put out to pasture when they are no longer an asset to the company---and don't even get a gold watch.

    Offering any JW the chance to see just what they are REALLY involved in is a kindness. What he does with the knowledge is completey up to him. At least our (my) conscience is clear in knowing that they have been told that there ARE other options available to them.

    Not everyone is a quivering and wandering pile of humanity and fall into a bottomless pit of depression when the scales fall from their eyes. Just another WTS idea to keep the R & F in line.

    Annie

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot

    I knew there was another comment I wanted to respond to........

    I think coming out and telling them that there is no God will not help the situation at all - I left the witnesses but I still believe in God. You said that believing in a God doesn't mean he exists, likewise not believing in him doesn't make him non-existent.

    LouBelle!

    Very good point! The WTS will tell you that leaving the Org is the same as leaving Jehovah. NOT TRUE (as is much of their mindset)! One's relationship with God is relative and personal.

    The WTS will have you believe that when you leave that you wander in darkness and that God sees you as dead. Again NOT TRUE. Anyone who reads Romans 8:38-39 can see that.

    We ourselves make that decision whether we choose to have a relationship with our Creator or not. Funny how I never realized this when I was a JW. I was told that my salvation was based on my belief in the teachings of the WTS---not on my belief in Jesus and his sacrifice.

    My "mediator" wasn't MY mediator according to the WTS---it was only for 144,000 people other than me.

    Realizing this, I went right on wondering IF I was doing enough, or IF I was going to make it through the "End" or not, depending on what I did for the WTS (time slips and recruiting my "neighbors" for possible converts) and IF I had earned enough credits of "undeserved kindness" to receive the gift of everlasting life on a Paradise Earth.

    Upon exiting the WTS I didn't leave God, but I FOUND him. Guess what! He had been there all along.

    Annie

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    I feel uneasy about this unless the person is somebody who is practically out anyway and they need moral support.

    There are some persons who would go into a deep depression if you snatch away their belief system so I would be very careful. We all know what an emotional roller-coaster it was for us. So can you imagine if you talk to a person who is not well-grounded mentally?

    I would never want to be responsible for somebody becoming despondent or suicidal!

  • Aaac
    Aaac

    "Is it right to try to get other JW’s out of the organization."
    Is it right to try to get people into the BOrganisation?"

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista
    Is it right to try to get other JW’s out of the organization."

    Is it right to try to get people into the BOrganisation?"

    yeh, it's full circle here. someone has to put a kink in the chain somewhere along the line in order that more people don't get hurt. Like I said before I am especially concerned about the children--they have no voice--they have no choice, but are forced into a belief system that is most likely harmful to them in the end (if the percentages leaving are 85% then they are doomed to being shunned by their families in the end) and this is very devastating to them. I don't like the idea of taking people's hope away, but if it is a selfish hope that is harmful to their children--then what?

    cybs

  • Midget-Sasquatch
    Midget-Sasquatch


    If they have the possibility of a more meaningful, fulfilling, life by leaving the cult (which I personally applies to quite a bit of Jws), then I thinks its morally right to try and free them. I'll agree that there are some rare exceptions where the rigid control and dictation of the cult is actually better for the person.

    I think the best way to help is to just stick to the facts and address any doubts they may be forming at first. To try and get any of the them to challenge their world view if they're still unquestioning about it, is, practically speaking, a waste of time, but morally speaking still a worthy thing to attempt. P.S. - I've tried with immediate family and have failed miserably, but at least I've tried. Now I'm slowly and carefully encouraging the questioning being done by a recent convert, who was first contacted by my pioneer sib.

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    aah man I just submitted something and it took me to the error page. ah well!

    DannyB - I commented on the flood - I'm just here I guess to question. I mean that's what got me axed from JWs' in the first place. There are civilisations that have the story of the flood, different God different other minor things but the common thread is that God destroyed the wicked people by a flood, saved a few & kept the animals safe. Surely where there is smoke there is fire??? how do you disprove the flood..... What about how some have proved or tried to prove it - that mamith that still had fresh frood in his mouth (reminds me of that movie "the day after tomorrow - where they had those quick freeze storms - wonder if those exist)

    One thing I am is no expert I merely infuriate them with my questions.

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