Is Jesus God? (page 3)

Glofishy

Is it a vase? Or two faces?

It looks like a man in a hat with an upside down bell on his head.

Now you know why I don't know the answer to that question

gumby

When you get a buncha shister, power hungry, lyin, swindlers putting together the bible canon, you can forget trying to figure out a message that makes any sense such as whether Jesus is god or not.

Gumby

Matt 21:18 While returning to the city early in the morning, he got hungry. 19 And he caught sight of a fig tree by the road and went to it, but he found nothing on it except leaves only, and he said to it: "Let no fruit come from you anymore forever." And the fig tree withered instantly. 20 But when the disciples saw this, they wondered, saying: "How is it that the fig tree withered instantly?" 21 In answer Jesus said to them: "Truly I say to YOU, If only YOU have faith and do not doubt, not only will YOU do what I did to the fig tree, but also if YOU say to this mountain, ?Be lifted up and cast into the sea,? it will happen. 22 And all the things YOU ask in prayer, having faith, YOU will receive."

Luke 11:12

The next day, when they had come out from Beth´a·ny, he became hungry. 13 And from a distance he caught sight of a fig tree that had leaves, and he went to see whether he would perhaps find something on it. But, on coming to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season of figs. 14 So, in response, he said to it: "Let no one eat fruit from you anymore forever." And his disciples were listening.

Was Jesus God, the son of God, or was he just a naughty boy?

I'm sure Dad would have spanked my bum for the senseless ringbarking of my neighbours tree to show off to my mates, especially if it was reported in two local papers.

If Jesus wasn't afraid of retribution from Big Scary Watchtower God for his misdemeanors he must have been God or equal to God.

Trinity rules OK

Chris

LittleToe

What is a god?Is it not someone or something that you adore and worship, maybe even doing obeisance to?
In that context we see Jesus receiving that kind of response in the bible.

Why is that acceptable, in the light of Ex.34:14 "For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God;"?

How come he didn't refuse it, as others do in Rev.22:8, 9: "Well, I John was the one hearing and seeing these things. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that had been showing me these things. But he tells me: "Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God."

We also find an express declaration from Thomas, that isn't refuted, in John 20:28, 29: "In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him: "Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe."

To this end Jesus must at the very least be "a" god, according to the JWs, which poses problems with Ex.34:14, above.

You'll note here that I'm not addressing the validity of these statements, or their comparative worth to other religions. I raise this point merely to show that the JWs have some unanswered questions.

Is Jesus the Father?I don't think you'll even find Trinitarians making this claim (excepting the Modalists). They openly acknowledge that Jesus is the Son, not the Father (though Isa.9:6 is interesting).

I began my personal approach to the Trinity doctrine from this perspective:

1. Just as there are different genus of "flesh" (e.g. animal and human), maybe so too with "spirit". To that end Father, Son and Holy Spirit are (I believe) clearly in a different category from the angels (as we find them portrayed in the bible).

2. All three are invoked in the baptismal rite, are involved in the process of prayer (simultaneously, regardless of when, where, or how many pray), and at times are attributed autonomy and personality.

3. Is "God" an individual or a genus?

Now I'm not declaring that I'm right, wrong or irrefutable, this is just my perspective, but again can I suggest that the JWs leave unanswered questions?

Caveats with man?
This does of course pose problems for the orthodox Christian, as well, since Christians are believed to be being conformed to the image of the Son and are ajoined to him as their "head" (progresssive sanctification, as a work of the Holy Spirit).

Interestingly, this is not stated as the image of God, as was the first Adam. Which does this infer, that Jesus is God (or a being of that genus), or that man will never attain the status that Adam had? A further poser for JWs.

Actually, to that end the Mormons (LDS) adhere to a more literal understanding of those passages of scripture, though to the orthodox Christian it would be tantamount to blasphemy to consider that we may be as "God".

As above, so below?
I've taken a good long, hard look at "spiritual" literature (not just the bible), in the context of how the physical realm might be an emulation of the spiritual. To that end I would offer the following observations, by way of opening up some areas of exploration for minds that may be interested:

The family unit is the most basic community, consisting of father, mother and child[ren]. Is this reflected in the biblical symbol of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (mother?)?

Evolution is a significant and demonstratable process. Is this extractable from the mythological stories of the bible, from "creation" through to eschatology? Science concurs with the fact that life started in the seas and that vegetation preceded land animals, etc.

There is an abundance of authority structures, as demonstrated in every civilisation and even in an online environment, such as this. Is this reflected in the "principalities and powers", as well as the hierarchy of heaven, that we find in biblical visionary literature?

Of course this could be attributed to anthromorphization

Evanescence

Jesus is the son of god.

The trinity is a great mystery and I know jws don't believe in it.

God jesus and the holy spirit are one but they are also individuals!

The funny thing is a jw lives accross the road from my school (catholic school!)

The lady wrote one on side of her driveway bad thing and on the other good things.

it went like this

Sheep Goats

Jehovah Trinity

Jesus lies

Holy spirit.

That table looks pritty funny from a catholics point of veiw though!

Because the catholics believe in the trinity.

The lady but god, jesus, holy spirit on one side and trinity on the other.

it really defeats the purpose of putting trinity on the bad side if god, jesus and the h.s is on the good side!

same opposite!

I look at the trinity as god cloning himself!

but in different forms!

From evanescence

Amazing1914

The Bible can be used to show that Jesus is God and is not God ... it all depends on how you interpret the verses involved.

What is certain, however, is that the Bible does not make God's nature an issue that affects our salvation. The Bible never endorses or condemns the Trinity or other attempts to explain God's nature. Instead, God seems far more concerned with who and what we are as persons, as his children, than in whether we fully understand his nature.

Jim W.

XBEHERE

Maybe people ("christians") should just forget it and start focusing on their so-called leaders TEACHINGS!

This is an issue I am sturggling with now and I am not sure but I agree with Amazing and the above statement. So many "christians" focus on doctrine instead of following the model christ left us. If anything, he was a wise man who gave very good advice on how to care for and show compassion to others.

LittleToe

Jim:Well put

XB:And what if your only leader is Christ?

Whereas many may take leaders to themselves, for the Christian surely Christ should take center stage?
A question for you - was he merely a "model" for us, as the JWs teach?

gumby

So many "christians" focus on doctrine instead of following the model christ left us.

Christians would also appreciate knowing who the hell to pray to. When I became so frustrated trying to figure out Jesus's true role and just who he was.....I prayed and prayed and searched for answers for many years,....and guess what?!!!!! No answers!

I guess AlanF is god cuz he's the only one who answered my question and made logical sense. Now I pray to AlanF. I prayed for a million dollars and the cheap bastard hasn't answered me yet!

Gumby

Is Jesus God?

Glofishy

gumby

PopeOfEruke

Black Sheep

LittleToe

Evanescence

Amazing1914

XBEHERE

LittleToe

gumby

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