New member, question thats been asked many times, but how do you feel ?

by Greyeyes 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat

    Welcome, greyeyes and min. I am not a JW. I married one instead. My questions were not adequately answered by my JW study, so I guess she decided I am not a sheep-like one, and I decided the JW's are not the Keepers-of-the-Truth as they claim.

    When I read your story, greyeyes, I sense exhaustion. It seems the last time you formed a noble goal you were six years old. "Go to Bethel." It is not surprising that once you reached that goal - and you experienced a deep betrayal - life lost it's meaning. A wise man wrote that the opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy (three guesses who it was).

    Could it be that you need a new vision for your life? A new, worthy goal? Is it possible that you need more than the greatest ambitions allowed a JW - field service and "reaching out" for more and more responsibility?

  • Sirona

    Welcome to the forum Greyeyes and Min!

    Great to see you are at least posting here and listening to everyone's views.

    What stood out to me about your posts is this: you make assertions (like the one about how JWs are the most persecuted in the world) but you have no evidence to back them up. This isn't an attack on you, my point is that when you leave the JWs one of the biggest lessons is to ALWAYS ask for evidence, or sources, which back up statements made.

    I learned this the hard way. When I was JW, I was constantly saying things like "JWs mirror first century christians better than any religion today" and "JWs are the only group who don't go to war". Both statements are FALSE but I didn't know, because I never asked for proof. I just believed the watchtower magazine and the books they publish. Have you ever noticed how they never provide backup sources for their assertions?

    I started studying at degree level and learned how to think more critically. Now when I write an essay and I make a statement, I HAVE TO BACK IT UP with at least some research or in depth study, a reference to history or somesuch. The few times I've read a watchtower article (since my higher education) I've been *really uncomfortable* with all of the assertions they make without backup. "More earthquakes nowadays", "more crime", "more lawlessness", "such and such a religion does this or that", well WHO SAID? Where is your evidence? Print off some scientific studies which PROVE that there are more earthquakes nowadays and I will believe you.

    It is not true that the JWs are the most persecuted religion. It is not true that they're the only ones who don't fight in war.

    If your girlfriend has learned how to study, then she needs to apply those techniques to religion. You might be surprised to hear that I do believe in God and I do follow a lesser known belief system, however, I don't go around telling people what is *TRUE* if I don't have proof. If it is a faith matter then it is a faith matter and therefore down to the individual to believe or not to believe. That is called religious tolerance- something the JWs know nothing about.


  • Greyeyes

    Then, who is the most oppressed religious group? I remember being at Bethel, and remembering the constant reports at morning worship about the brothers in Greece, Different African countries, etc that were under constant percecution. So that was false? Show me proof. And not someone's web page claiming it was false, but solid, well known sources. The same with being conciencious objectors. Please show me another Christian group, that as a whole, dont fight in wars or assist in any way. Again, I would like to see solid well known sources. You see, I have looked at these issues before, and I couldnt find any. Are JW's the only people who wont fight? Of course not. Are they the only ones oppressed? No. Are they the only ones as a global worldwide whole that are? From everything I've seen yes. I'm not here to debate, so please dont take it that way. I came to this site to find others like me, who just dont have the energy to go anymore. Not to get bombarded with all thereasons people feel that JW's are the Anti-Christ. I've in my travels, and searches,still never found a group of people that were more devoted to bible standards (even if they are flawed) but still normal people as I have with the JWs. I personally dont feel that they are a Cult. A cult to me are folks that want to off themselves to catch a comet to another planet. Or Drink Kool-aid for a mass suicide. Or the leader of the group marrying every female 12 and up in the bunch. To me JW's are just devout. I dont consider the Amish a cult. They Isolate themselves fromt he world. Refuse technology to a large degree. But no one talks abotu them being a cult. So explain to me why JW's are? Because they hold strick to the Bible? ANd let face facts. Even if they did change some things around. The basics hold true. Love you neighbor, dont get drunk, dont have sex outside of marrige, dont lie, dont cheat, dont steal, dont gamble, dont kill, dont partake of blood. Whats so hard about that? How is sticking to those principles make you a cult? Just becuase other Christian based faiths are lax about it? Again, not trying to debate, just want to know why so many of you hate them so much.....

  • jgnat

    Greyeyes, have you considered my question?

  • Greyeyes

    Yes, and actually, its just the opposite. I'm tired of the responsibility. Tired of the lofty expectations. I've had many worthwhile goals in my life. The one at 6 was just the first. Exhustion is the perfect word. I'm exhusted of trying to live by the rules, tired of dealing wit the aftermah of my ex-wife leaving me, just to have her turn around in the end, and go "you were right, I want you back" and me having to tell her no every other day. I'm tired of not sleeping, not eating, smoking to much, and those nasty Sat morning hangovers. I'm tired of having no beter a sex life now than I had when I was married. And I'm tired of feeling like everyone is pulling in every direction. Some to get me back in, others to get me to stay away. All have the answers, all are speaking the truth, and the other ones are evil. I'm passive. Live and let live. Thats just me.

  • jgnat

    For your proofs, here's a start.

    Who is getting persecuted? More than the witnesses:

    Non-violent religions who advocate peace:

    Consider carefully what Sirona said. The JW's have made exclusive claims on a lot of these subjects, without providing any proofs at all. I very quickly found evidence that they are not unique in being persecuted, nor in being a religious organization that advocates peace. The witnesses have been shown to make exaggerated claims to an audience who is not allowed to question. Now, profide your proof.

    But as you say, debating is besides the point. I don't see "loving the JW's" or "hating the JW's" as being the core of your problem. You have lost heart for the cause. I would like to help you figure out why that is.

  • jgnat

    I guess we were both responding at the same time. About the lofty goals. They were other's ambitions, were they not? You were meeting other's expectations. Your parents. The organization.

    Have you ever went for a dream that was uniquely yours?

  • OldSoul
    GreyEyes: All have the answers, all are speaking the truth

    I don't have the answers, and that is the truth. Neither do they, and that is the truth. Most of them are well-meaning, hardworking, faithful people. Some of them are evil. Unfortunately for those well-meaning folk, they forgot that the dross rises to the top.


  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    Welcome Greyeyes!

    I get a deep down feeling that you'll adhere tight to your girlfriend and she'll help you back to the WTBTS. Just a hunch.

    At any rate, it's good to have you with us here.


  • SixofNine

    btw, Greyeyes, wouldn't it be more impressive if Jehovah's Witnesses DIDN'T make a rule about military service, and instead let individual members excercize their own concience (hah! what a concept!)? I mean, there is nothing in the bible to back up that rule, is there? If that had been a "rule" for early christians, we'd know about it. And as far as that goes, alternative service IS now allowed for witnesses, so was it reasonable that it was ever disallowed? If so, tell that to one of the brothers that was raped or abused in prison as an objector.

    Also, can a group really bitch and moan about "persecution" that they have brought on themselves, not for truly following christian standards, but just for being irritating and in-the-face others? I'm not saying religious persecution is justified here, but is it really a fullfilment of bible prophecy? After all, wasn't it Jesus who told his disciples "go not from house to house"? ;-)

    You should read up on the background of the Nazi persecution of witnesses. It's an eye-opener.

    You should REALLY read up on the Malowi persecution, it's even more of an eye-opener.

    You should see a doctor about that other stuff.

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