I'm so angry/been crying for hours (page 6)

hillary_step

Rod P,

Two nights ago I prepared a 4-hour post and then submitted it.

You spent four hours preparing one post! I hope it was a post about interesting things to do if you have four hours to waste.

HS

Yes, I spent at least four hours. It was 3:30 a.m. when I submitted it. There is an awful lot to say, which you would see if the post had actually arrived. After my "short-post test", which seemed to work, I then spent another 2 1/2 hours on a second post and submitted it. Same thing- it just disappeared.

My internet service provider (ISP) has been having problems city-wide for about ten days, and I suspect this is part of the problem. I am on high-speed ADSL, and it moves along at a snail's pace. I have been on the phone with their technical support team about 4 times, and they are still trying to figure things out. Anyway, I am holding off for a few days in hopes the ISP can get their act together. If not, I may have to change ISP's.

Anyway, I don't mind spending 4 hours giving information that may be helpful to one who is in great pain and anguish, and I do not consider it a waste of time in the least.

Rod P.

p.s. In a way, this little post is a bit of a test too. If it works, I may try again sooner rather than later. It may be that short posts work but longer posts disappear. Maybe the devil is doing it! (heh! heh!)

Special K

(((( Hugs))) to you...

It truly is very painful to be cut off fromt he ones we love.

Newlight2 recommended these two books.

Two books written by Steven Hassan are recomended reading:

Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing The Bonds

I read Releasing the bonds and it was extremely helpful to me. I'm truly sure they would be helpful to you and encourage you to read them.

sincerely

Special K

Rod P

To ...fullof:

I have been having trouble getting my posts to reach your thread. This time, I prepared my post in MS Word, which I am now going to try and copy into this reply. Fingers crossed!

At the present time there are more than 6,000,000 people around the world professing to be JW. Did you know that every year the Society disfellowships something like 50,000 to 60,000 members? Think how many that is over a period like 10 or 20 or 30 years. Think about how many peoples? lives have been ripped apart by all the Shunning that follows. It is astounding to contemplate the extent of the destruction that this has generated, not to mention all the suicides that are a part of that. I am not saying that there are no bad people in the JW Organization that need to be removed. But I am saying that there are a great many people who have been given the same kind of Disfellowshipping and Shunning treatments who have lost faith, and cannot in their heart of hearts believe in it anymore

There is an interesting web-site on the topic of Jehovah?s Witnesses and Shunning:

http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

I am going to quote a number of the comments contained therein that show that Shunning is not scriptureal.

?But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.?

(I Corinthians 5:11) (NWT)

Here it is important to learn the customs of association for worship practiced by first-century Jews and Christians, bearing in mind that Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and cusotms of their day?????..There were two kinds of association for religious worship:

1) Public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend; and

2) Private gatherings of the different sects.

Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT)

Christians were instructed to ?greet? one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1 Cor.13:12; Titus 3:14; 1 Peter 5:14) When Paul sent his ?greetings? in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the ?brothers? be greeted by a ?holy kiss? on his behalf. (1 Thess.5:26) It was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48)

Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation?s fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying ?holy kiss?, as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul?s instructions did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.

2 nd John 10, 11 (NWT):

?If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.?

The above scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who ?does not bring this teaching? (of the Christ). Because they held congregation meetings in their homes (which might be little more than a dug-out or tent outside the city walls of Jerusalem), in their culture their neighbors might view inviting a non-Christian into the home as the Christian sharing worship with non-Christians.

Jehovah?s Witnesses, while shunning disfellowshipped or disassociated persons, do not prohibit them from attending the congregation meetings at their Kingdom Halls. Yet, the congregation was specifically where Paul instructed Christians not to be ?mixing in company with? disfellowshipped sinners.

If the scripture at 2 John 10 were observed literally by Jehovah?s Witnesses, they would be obliged to never invite anyone other than a Jehovah?s Witness in good standing into their home, or ever speak a greeting to anyone other than a Jehovah?s Witness.

Matthew 18:15-17 (NWT):

?Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But, if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations (?Gentile? in some translations) and as a tax collector.?

The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it be brought before the entire congregation (not privately with the ?elders?).

If, after all that, the person still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a ?man of the nations? (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner) was far from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for ?tax collectors?, Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned.

There is no scripture basis for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is to expel them from the congregation and treat them like anyone else who is not a member. Especially, there is no scripture to support shunning of one?s own relatives- parents, children and siblings.

?If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.? (1 Timothy 5:8 (NIV)

Even for the rest, Paul counseled against abandoning those separated from the congregation:

?For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother. (2 Thes.3:13-15 NWT)

When a Jehovah?s Witness male qualifies to be an elder in the congregation, he is assigned an uncirculated proprietary book that gives instruction for counseling and disciplinary actions according to the Society?s rules. The title of this book is ?Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock?. Interestingly, on the bottom of page 103 in that book, it is stated that Jehovah?s Witnesses need not be disfellowshipped for associating with disfellowshipped relatives except if the association involves ?spiritual association? or if there is an attempt to excuse the former member?s objectional behavior. It says:

?Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to excuse the wrongful course? (?Flock book?, page 103, last paragraph)

Despite this documented exclusion, Jehovah?s Witness the world over are taught that to please Jehovah God they must shun their siblings, their children, and even their parents who either choose to leave or are disfellowshipped?especially if the crime is variance with Watchtower doctrine for which they are branded ?apostates?. And it is a fact that many Witnesses have been disfellowshipped for refusing to shun their disfellowshipped relatives.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In my opinion, ?Shunning? is one of the cruelest forms of punishment any group or religion can impose on an individual. Research has been done with primates such as chimpanzees as to what happens to an individual when left alone in isolation. For example, one experiment was done where babies were kept together to socialize, and they were shown abundant love, affection, nurturing, attention, etc., and of course, they were kept well fed and sheltered, taking care of all their physical needs. Others were kept alone, by themselves, in isolation, with no touching or holding, showing as little attention as possible, while also taking care of all their physical needs in an identical fashion as with the nurtured primates. The first group thrived, and grew up very healthy and content, and were also very affectionate and nurturing themselves. The isolated ones, however, developed all kinds of mental problems and personality disorders, and after a short period of time, they died, having lost the will to live.

Rather than teaching one to repent and come back into the fold, the JW?s are actually setting up the conditions for anger, hostility, hatred, and loathing. Those persons who have have difficulty believing in the JW Organization anymore and so become inactive or disassociated, will find themselves shunned by the brothers and sisters in the congregation, the Elders, and even members of their own family. Those who have fragile or sensitive personalities will experience an incredible amount of stress, with feelings of unworthiness, dejection, guilt, shame, bewilderment, confusion, depression and loneliness. This leads inevitably to feelings of anger and resentment, rather than teaching repentance. Shunning inflicts great damage to one?s physical, emotional, mental and spiritual health, which more often than not, causes irreparable harm. Shunning is, in fact, mental, emotional, psychological and spiritual ABUSE, and wreaks havoc, devastation and many suicides in its wake. This is NOT love, and neither is it scriptural.

The practice of Shunning has its roots in ?the Carrot and the Stick? philosophy. We will love you and fellowhip you and nurture you IF you are a good ?JW?. That is the Carrot. It is a conditional Love (i.e. We will love you IF?.?) But, if you lose faith in our beliefs, in the Governing Body, in the Elders, and you decide to leave or disassociate yourself from us, then we shall disfellowship you, cast you out, and we will no longer accept you, talk to you, fellowship you, visit you, join with you in any personal activities, etc. In short, we will Shun you, and we will disfellowship anyone else who violates this policy. That is the Stick. It is meant to scare and control you, so that you will not lose faith or fall away from the religion; but if you do cross over the line, then it?s supposed to make you realize the ?error of your ways?, cause you to repent, and come rushing back into the fold, back to Jehovah?s Loving Organization?. What a pile of crap!

Contrast this with I Corinthians 13 (New King James Version):

Verse 4: Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

Verse 5: does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

Verse 7: bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Verse 13: And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The top of the JW Organization, the Governing Body, has the audacity to view itself as God?s Sole Channel of Communication on Earth between God and Man. They teach that you cannot find salvation except thru the Society. This involves absolute loyalty, acceptance and faith in that Organization, or else. You are not permitted to think for yourself, as that is considered ?independent thought? which is forbidden. You must believe in everything that they say, everything that they write in the publications, and every policy or practice, which they instruct the Elders to follow to the letter when imposing it all on the JW?s at large. They call this a ?Theocracy?, meaning God-ruled, but it also presumes they are the one right religion on earth, and every other religion or organization on the earth is ruled by Satan the Devil, the god of this World or System of Things. It does not matter how many false dates and prophecies they have made over the years. It does not matter how many times they have changed their doctrinal teachings and then call it ?New Truth?. It does not matter that some of their so-called ?New Truth? that was supposed to have been progressively revealed to the Governing Body under the direction of the Holy Spirit, has, in fact, been taught years earlier by bible scholars of other religions. In other words, Satan?s religious scholars seem to have been in possession of ?New Truth? years in advance of Jehovah?s Organization. An example of this was during the Second World War when adult male JW?s were drafted into the armed services, but refused to go on the scriptural interpretation of Romans 13:1 ?Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.? (KJV) They interpreted this scripture on the basis that the ?higher powers? were Jehovah God and Christ Jesus, rather than the earthly governments and rulers. Therefore, they did not go to war because the scriptures taught that they had to obey Jehovah and Jesus, and not the earthly governments and rulers when it came to war, and so they went to jail as Conscientious Objectors. The clergy were brought into the courtroom to debate the JW interpretation of the Scriptures, and they pointed out that the Higher Powers in Romans 13 were the earthly governments and rulers, rather than Jehovah and Jesus. Years later, circa 1961, the JW?s came out with an article teaching the ?new truth? that Romans 13 was saying that the earthly governments and rulers were the higher or superior authorities after all, and then went on to talk about JW?s having a ?relative subjection? to these earthly powers. The point is, however, the clergy were right years in advance of the Watchtower Society.

Why is all this important? It is important, because it is meant to demonstrate that this Organization has been teaching falsehood all thru the years, while at the same claims it is the one right religion that has God?s blessings. Therefore, what gives them the right to treat people the way they do in this whole ungodly practice of ?Shunning?. How dare they, given their track record. How dare they rip families apart and interfere with relationships, pretending that it is Jehovah God that is doing the judging and handing out the punishments! ?Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.? ?Judge not, lest ye yourself be judged.? They have a lot of answering to do!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Now then, you are both angry and devastated over the situation with your sister and your two nieces. It is important that you do not allow the JW Organization and the Elders to intimidate and control you. They can do this only if you play the game their way. If you show respect to this barrier of ?Shunning? they have erected and imposed on your sister, counselling her to avoid you, and to quit associating with you, then they have won over you. When you see your sister, you should explain to her kindly and with love, yet with the firmness of your own conviction that this treatment is very wrong, unscriptural, and is destroying a loving relationship amongst this whole family. It cannot be justified, and you also should tell her exactly how you feel about all this, and why. Do it lovingly, appealing to your sister?s sense of family bonds and blood, a lifetime of growing up together, sharing and loving one another, and how much you love your nieces, and that these little children should not be made pawns in this adult, organizational, dictatorial chess game. These guys are the outsiders here, and they have no right to get in the middle of our family and meddle with things, telling your sister what to do in the name of Jehovah. The family was just fine until they came along and started getting in the middle of it, sowing the seeds of division and judgment. ?Where is the Love?? you should ask her.

Here is another thing to keep in mind. The JW?s are the ones who are not supposed to talk to, or associate with YOU. This does not mean that YOU cannot talk to them. YOU don?t have to obey their rules, and they have no jurisdiction over you. You should feel free to talk with your sister, and still show love towards her and her children, and this will serve as a good example. This does not mean being pushy or imposing yourself on them, but at the same time, I would not hesitate to tell her how you feel, and why this Shunning is so destructive and unreasonable. Maybe in time, what you say to her will linger in the back of her mind, and one day she may reconsider her position with you, like a light going on in her head, and suddenly she sees the truth about this nonsense.

Further, is it possible that you have perhaps ?put all your eggs in one basket?? In other words, have you been putting all your time and attention and efforts into your two nieces to the point that you have nothing left to pursue relationships with anyone else? Many mothers make this mistake. They devote their entire lives to their children, endlessly sacrificing and giving of themselves, so that they can only define themselves in terms of their kids (or their husbands). They have forgotten how to be individuals. Then, when the kids grow up and move away, suddenly the mother feels empty and alone, and doesn?t know what to do with herself, and discovers she doesn?t even know who or what she is. Given your present situation, with all the pain and angst you are going thru, maybe it would be a good idea to see that pain as a signal that your inner self is trying to tell you something. Perhaps your core being is telling you to do something about filling that void with something more constructive and satisfying and fulfilling. Moving on is the key that will open many new doors and avenues you would never have thought possible until you begin to explore them. What if you were to seek out others who would welcome you as a friend. In other words, get yourself ?networked? with others, and you will find yourself too busy to wallow and worry about what you have lost with your sister and your nieces. This is not abandoning your loved ones. It is learning how to love and respect yourself, and sharing your light with the world, rather than ?hiding it under a bushel?, as the saying goes. Then, in time, you will begin to reflect an inner radience that others will see, and I?m sure your sister would too. She will recognize your happiness, and want the same thing for herself, and she and your nieces will be attracted to it and to you. This is how you can follow the old adage: ?When life hands you a lemon, you turn it into lemonade!? Thus, by your own example, you can show your sister that Shunning is not the answer, but Love IS!

Keep your chin up. Do not lose hope, and do not become too discouraged. There is much that you can do to help things work out for the better in the end, even though it may not seem like it at the present time. The last chapter has not yet been written.

All the best!

Rod P.

I'm so angry/been crying for hours

hillary_step

Rod P

Special K

Rod P

Share this