by kwintestal 63 Replies latest social current
OMG, she treads on the bill of rights .... yeah well IMO the reasons our founding fathers wanted to include the right to bear arms are not valid in today's society, 200+ years hence.
Very, very true.
What the founding fathers meant is far from the interpretation the NRA would like us to believe.
I think the whole gun thing is part of the general American paranoia - you seem to live in total and constant fear. How sad.
Many Americans do live in fear - how do you think Bush got re-elected? Fear of gays, fear of terrorists, fear of someone taking away their precious guns, fear that others may stop believing in God and, therefore, have a hell of a better, saner, happier life than themselves. You should hear the squealing whenever the terror alert gets raised...it's friggin' pathetic. How anyone could buy into such a blatant manipulation of people's fears and emotions, I will never know. Forgive me for going off topic, but it's kind of related.
After living in fear of Armegeddon for so many years, this American refuses to live in any more fear. WHEN the terrorists strike again (WHEN, not IF), there's precious little I can do about it. The railings around Independence Hall make me sick. Take them down and if the terrorists strike, let us go down with dignity, for chrissakes.
I think the whole gun thing is part of the general American paranoia - you seem to live in total and constant fear. How sad.
My goodness, Simon......."American paranoia"? Isn't your statement painted with a rather large brush?
The "gun thing" will always have its pros and cons, just as many issues do, and lots of folks DO live in fear and unfortunately DO have good reason to be afraid in their own neighborhoods.
I'm not condoning the mother's actions or stupidity here, but who knows exactly what she was going through where she lived? There are some places where the Law enforcement aren't exactly swift responders when there is a problem.
I had a situation here about 20 years ago where my life was in danger by a crazed and drunk neighbor who's son had ran here to escape his father who had already beaten him. The boy was hysterical and had fled here for some kind of protection. The father was on the warpath and was demanding that he wanted his son. NOW!
I live out in the country and I called 911 and it took 45 minutes for them to get here. Needless to say I was a wreck. I have also lived in the city in a housing complex, and we had many incidents where the police were called and took what seemed like forever to show up.
What really made me surprised was that someone had told me if anyone was to break into your home (and you were in it) that you couldn't DO anything until they were INSIDE. I called the police to ask if this was true---and it was. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. I can understand why people keep loaded guns in the house. There are two sides to any story.
Annie
After having thought about this for a bit- my drunk driving analogy isn't quite the right one to use in this situation because any time a person drinks to a point past the legal limit and then drives a car they are breaking the law. So banning alcohol for responsible drinkers because of the illegal acts of some who have accidently killed others while in that drunken state isn't the same as the point I was trying to make.
FMZ had it with the analogy of driving a car. It's a right, just like owning a gun and can be "accidently" as lethal as a gun while operating it legally. But, if you kill others with a car and it's found that there was any recklessness or inattentive driving involved, there will be consequences for it. Maybe the answer is to hold people accountable for their actions with guns in matters where children get hurt or killed. If you own a gun, YOU are responsible for it and if a child gets hurt while it's in your ownership, YOU pay the price under the legal system. I'd say that is much more equitable for the situation than going to the extreme and banning guns for everyone due to the irresponsibility of a few.
Joanna also hit the nail on the head with this:
This isn't even a gun issue really - it's that a four year old has somehow gotten the message that if I'm pissed off guns/violence can solve my problems. Sick and sad.
Well, since you were one of the first ones to steer this discussion into the realm of gun control as a means to irradicate gun related accidents and how much better things are over there because you have it, I guess you must also be having a real problem keeping on topic. If something is brought up in the discussion, it's discussed isn't it?XenaW
You are talking about two separate issues here - yes this is an issue of gun control because any moron can go out and get a gun and leave it lying around for their child to blow their head off, just because their constitutional rights say they can (heaven forbid that their right to own a gun is taken away)
Criminals dont care whether it is legal or not to own a gun - so showing stats of gun CRIME doesnt really have anything to do with gun related ACCIDENTS that occur in the home because there is a gun i.e homes of law abiding people who would not have a reason to have a gun in the home if there were laws against it.
Ang, the two issues do meld together and they were already doing that by the time I entered this thread. I was adding my two cents into what was already being discussed. I notice no one else was told they weren't staying on topic, however. But I guess it's easier to say that than to discuss what I posted and it's relevance to gun accidents and children.
I don't see where any of the U.S. statistics separated out those accidents involving children and guns in law abiding people's homes vs. criminals. We don't really know do we? If the presence of guns is the reason for accidental deaths of children, that holds true whether the guns are obtained legally or illegally.
Do we know how many children have been killed accidently by guns in England? It's just as easy to have an accident with a gun and a child in the home of a criminal as it is in the home of a law abiding citizen. Or are criminals more careful with their guns around their children? We don't know these things. What it boils down to is not the guns- it's the people who own them and their personal responsibility or lack thereof.
Well having the guaranteed RIGHT to bear arms is obviously more important than having sensible legislation that would go a long way to reducing the amount of these tragedies that you hear about, as if it was illegal, a normal person (not a criminal), hense good percentage of the population would not have a gun in the home in the first place so the chances of an accident of this sort is greatly reduced.
You cannot legislate stupidity or irresponsibility. Although the story of this child and the real tragedy it is happens to be discussed right now, accidents with children and guns really is a small portion overall. The statistics I posted from '2000 showed 86 total accidental deaths with children involving guns. And as tragic as each one of those deaths may be, banning guns simply will not eliminate that. This sensible legislation you speak of may help reduce this number but will increase other numbers of deaths, including children, due to illegal guns. Banning guns won't make them go away as is evidenced in your own country.
And I guess they should take cars off the road too, eh? They kill a lot of people due to idiots who don't know how to control it, so why not take them away? I mean, a car has it's uses and all, but so does a gun.
Cars were made for the purpose of transportation. Guns were made for the purpose of injuring/killing people. Big difference...
Anyone can get a gun, including Al Queada members, stupid irresponsible parents, criminals, drug dealers, psychos, etc. Gun control does not necessarily need to mean no guns period. It should certainly mean there is a control set on who can have guns; limited possesion IMHO! Just as a person with a history of DUI should not be able to drive... Car control - LOL.
Bottem line in this instance is no gun then no issue.
Even a lock box can be broken by a teenager wanting access to the weapon.
Might I add this is the one big issue that separates me from an all out 100% Right Winger... I don't get how people can be anti-abortion and yet be ok with having guns... It boggles my mind. Not to get off topic, of course
Do we know how many children have been killed accidently by guns in England? It's just as easy to have an accident with a gun and a child in the home of a criminal as it is in the home of a law abiding citizen. Or are criminals more careful with their guns around their children? We don't know these things. What it boils down to is not the guns- it's the people who own them and their personal responsibility or lack thereof.
Very few ...
Don't you get it? What is the common factor in all of this? GUNS ! Duh-huh.
You cannot legislate stupidity or irresponsibility.
Exactly ... but you CAN legislate to make sure that stupid and irresponsible people do not have access to guns. It's called gun control.
America seems to get so wrapped up in legalities and rights that it misses completely what is important. It will hapilly give up the true valuable freedoms and rights that people have faught and died for and then scream blue murder if anyone suggests something actually useful, like limiting the number of weapons in circulation.
Its very simple ... the more guns there are lying around and accessible, the more likely accidents will happen.
Whatever happened to personal responsiblity and acceptance of consequences?
Forget guns.... what about all the assholes with a drivers license.
u/d
Simon,
You really piss me off. You stated, something like we are paranoid and fearful. That is a bunch of crap. I live in a safe neighborhood, as safe as yours.
I have never owned a gun and don't plan to.
However, my father taught me how to shoot a rifle when I was 8 years old. He was an expert marksman and had a medal from the Army as a result. My lesson took all of ten minutes. Ten years later, I came in third in a marksmanship contest. I had not shot a gun over those ten years.
One lesson was to never point a gun at another person. A very simple rule that every child should learn.
Angharad,
Thank you for your interesting obervations. I do believe that anyone who buys a gun, should go through training and prove their proficiency before they can buy a gun. They should get a license, just like people have to before driving a car.
Another thing Simon,
You seem to think that everyone here packs a gun. That is very far from the truth. The people I know that have rifles, use them to get their meat to subsidize their grocery bill, places like Appalachia and the upper peninsala of Northern Michigan.
Simon,
On a humorus note on this grisly subject. It is not guns that kill people. I is bullets. They travel very fast when shot from a gun.
