In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........

by holly 97 Replies latest jw friends

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  Sunspot

  So, Holly, JW?s admit that the gospel or good news that they preach door to door is a different gospel from what was preached prior to 1914.
  
  The Bible plainly warns against the preaching of a different gospel that is NOT written in the Scriptures! See Gal 1:8-9.
  
  Can you prove by using the Bible alone that Jesus did in fact return invisibly
  Can you prove by using the Bible alone that Jehovah choose the Watchtower Society alone to represent him in 1918?

  Newlight2,

  GOOD POINT! (middle sentence)

  I decided to repeat this because it is SO important, and usually overlooked in discussions like these.

  The JWs are taught (Service Meeting) what to say and how to make their presentations to people......but the WTS is not preaching the same message as Jesus did, therefore they ARE guilty of preaching a different gospel, just as you brought out.

  Annie
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  Leolaia

  michelle...I don't find those arguments sufficient to indicate that the "great multitude" of v. 6 is a separate from the "great multitude in heaven" of v. 1. The command to praise God in v. 5 does not imply that God's servants "both great and small" had not previously praised him, for this is what is described in v. 1. Rather, it signals a resumption of their praise following the intervening actions in v. 4 of the 24 elders. Indeed, the phrase "great multitude" is used to describe a "roar" (phónén) of praise which has the "roar" of v. 1 as its antecedent, which is again described as a roar of a "great multitude". Second, there is no reason why the passage should say that the roar is the third such statement of praise, for this is self-evident from the context. Third, I'm not sure what the timing of the wedding supper in v. 7-9 has to do with where the roar is coming from in v. 1 and 6; previous visions placed such roars and a "great multitude" itself in heaven, e.g. before the "throne" (Revelation 14:2, 7:9), and the bride does not come to earth until 21:2, after the eschatological judgment and the passing away of the "first earth" (21:1), so it is hardly self-evident that the bride is on earth in ch. 19. Moreover, the description of the bride, of those in New Jerusalem in 21:2-4 is precisely that of the "great multitude" of 7:14-17 who were earlier in the "temple" in heaven (cf. 11:19, 14:17, 15:5 which locate the "temple" in heaven), and it is there that they are united with the Lamb; later in ch. 21, after the passing away of the heavens and earth, do the Lamb and his bride come down together to a new, different earth. Finally, the language used to describe this "roar" in 19:6, that it is "like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder", is exactly that of "a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder" in Revelation 14:2. Although interpretation of the visions in Revelation can never be certain because of their symbolic and sometimes vague character, I don't see sufficient reason to assume a radical discontiunity between the "roar of a great multitude" in 19:1 and the "roar of a great multitude" five verses later...
• 

  myelaine

  leolaia,
  

  the fact that the crowd in verse 6 has the voice "as many waters and heavy thunders" would suggest to me "the crowd" has supernatural ability to speak to the small and great on earth as God had commissioned the 144 000. Also in verse 11 John is seeing heaven open AGAIN which might suggest that from verse 1 to verse 11 he LOOKED toward something else, namely earth. Also, RIGHT after this FINAL witness of the crowd the Lord comes and it is pretty much THE END for unbelievers.

  michelle

  p.s. re: the marriage supper, you are right the crowd IS just announcing that the marriage has arrived or is a done deal, not that they had arrived on earth for the supper, but who are the crowd addressing? everyone in heaven is aware of this fact, people on earth wouldn't be aware of this.
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  NewLight2

  After re-reading my post above, I found that due to a typo "in 1914?" was left out. So here is the corrected question:
  
  Can you prove by using the Bible alone that Jesus did in fact return invisibly in 1914?
  
  And now adding to that question:
  
  In fact, I find that the Bible states that Jesus' return will be a visible one as was his ascension into heaven.
  
  Compare Acts 1:9-11 with Revelation 1:7
  
  "Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will SEE him"
  Revelation 1:7 NIV
• 

  jeanniebeanz

  for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?

  You're probably on overload right now so I'll keep it to a minimum. Simple is how I like to keep things, so:

  1. The witness of the good news of Christ?s Sacrifice is being preached all over the world by many different types of Christians: turn on your TV on Sunday morning and you see it, drive down a street and count the churches, turn on the news and hear about missionaries all over the world. Never before in history has there been such a flood of information available to so many places in the world.

  2. There does not need to be a scripture to show who is doing the work, just look around and see it! The important thing is the message, not the group or individual publishing it.

  3. The Kingdom. You can argue all the way through Armageddon about what this is, is it heavenly, is it earthly, etc., etc. The fact is that people can tell you a dozen different things, and from the Bible! I believe in simple answers as the closest to the truth as we humans can grasp, and Matthew 6:10 simply states that we are to pray that God's Kingdom come and that his will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. In Heaven, God is the ruler. His will on earth then is that he should take back the rulership of earth.; simple. Matthew 6:33 also states that we should keep the coming Kingdom first in our minds, so that our lives would be 'added to'.

  Luke chapter 6 is good to read especially starting with vs. 17: the sermon on the mount. It has some interesting things to say about the kingdom, it?s nature and its inhabitants.

  Hope this helps,

  Jeannie
• 

  myelaine

  Jeanniebeanz,
  

  You said: 1. The witness of the good news of Christ?s Sacrifice is being preached all over the world by many different types of Christians

  I say: Amen

  love michelle
• 

  NewLight2

  Holly,
  
  What is your rush to get baptized a JW?
  
  Most on this board are only trying to prevent you from making a decision that will only result in future heartache and pain for you and your family.
  
  Slooow down!! Take your time in making that binding commitment to the Watchtower Society through baptism.
  
  The JW Biblical doctrines are not the issue here. Believe what you feel is right for you. You are free to choose your own beliefs now, but once you become a "Baptzed Jehovah's Witness" you will lose that very freedom you value so much.
  
  The Watchtower Society will DEMAND that you believe, agree, and follow every little detail that they spew forth from Brooklyn headquarters. For if you do not, they will toss you aside, shun you, and probably DF you.
  
  Their beliefs and 'rules' change like the wind. Read Quotes website -- http://quotes.watchtower.ca/ -- to verify that this statement is true.
  
  You may agree 100% with the Watchtower Society NOW, but sooner or later they will recieve 'newlight' again, and you will be forced to change your beliefs in accordance with this 'blinking newlight'.
  
  The 'blinking newlight' regarding who should/should not be shunned is a good example of this and one that has caused much heartache among families and friends as Watchtower policy has changed through time.
  
  What most posters on JWD want you to do is WAIT to take that fatal plunge into the baptismal tank, Holly. Slow down. Continue to research OUTSIDE WT materials. Take your time. Again, what is your HURRY to be baptized?? Continue to attend the KH and associate with the JW's if that is what you choose to do, but please, please WAIT to be baptized into this Mind-Controlling Cult!
  
  Have you explored other branches, like the Bible Students, who follow C T Russell's teachings?
  
  NewLight2
• 

  PopeOfEruke

  Holly
  this rounds on me..
  Pope

  
• 

  NewLight2

  Holly,
  
  The 'unity' that the JW's boast about is more correctly, UNIFORMITY. When 'newlight' is declared by Watchtower Society Headquarters, ALL JW's must respond in total agreement. This rigid uniformity is not what God had in mind when he inspired the Apostles to speak and write about Christian UNITY, which was based not on FEAR but on LOVE - see Col 3:14.
  
  Does this unity which is based on love require the uniformity that is demanded of JW's? Not according to Romans 14:2-5 (Jerusalem Bible) - ". . . each must be left to hold his own opinion."
  
  Forced uniformity is never based on love, but rather it is almost always based on fear. Perfect love casts out fear - I John 4:18
  
  During the centuries of the Inquistion, the Roman Catholic Church was able to instill a similar forced unity in its followers; since 'heretics' (read apostates) were tortured and burned at the stake, hardly anyone dared to dissent.
  
  Within the JW's, there is a lot of 'talk' about love, but not much real unconditional love can be found. Although there is plenty of 'conditional' love to be found! As long as you CONFORM the JW's show this 'conditional' love, but if someone stops conforming, gone is the love too. Is this REALLY what the Bible teaches, holly?
  
  NewLight2
• 

  Sunspot

  Within the JW's, there is a lot of 'talk' about love, but not much real unconditional love can be found. Although there is plenty of 'conditional' love to be found! As long as you CONFORM the JW's show this 'conditional' love, but if someone stops conforming, gone is the love too. Is this REALLY what the Bible teaches, holly?

  Holly,

  This is SO true!

  As in my case, 30 years of friendships were instantly ended when I let the elders know all that I had discovered about the WTS hidden activities. Of course, when you become a JW, you are told that anyone outside the WTS is bad association (including relatives) and that it would be "unwise" to be with those who are against "God".

  They constantly have "reminder talks" to keep poking at your brain, to re-enforce "good=JWs", "bad=nonJWs" so that eventually you find yourself having only JWs for "friends" (which is the way they want it-you are even more dependent on them that way).

  If and when you find that their unbiblical restrictions and their heavy burdens on your everyday life become suffocating and you choose to leave-----ALL those friendships come to a grinding halt, and you are shunned, and your "before the WTS" friends are now history. You have nobody. It's a vicious and cruel trap.

  There IS NO GRACEFUL WAY OUT of the WTS! Sorry for shouting---but it needs to be emphasized.

  Annie