In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........

by holly 97 Replies latest jw friends

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  adelmaal

  God told 1st century christians to preach. When he did that he was speaking to each individual. IMHO - we all have the burden placed on us in the Bible to share what we have learned about him and his son Jesus. I do not believe we need to be part of an organization to share this information with people though. We have the Bible just as Jesus and his disciples did.
  

  Heck, allot of us here on this very site are sharing what we believe to be truth from the Bible. It doesn't come from a manmade organization. It comes from a personal study of the Bible in conjunction with God's Holy Spirit. Why should we preach what comes from man though?

  I'm tellin' you. Read "Crises of Conscience" and you will see that the Society has not preached what comes from God. They have preached personal opinion, personal interpretation and double standards. They make no apologies when their past opinions have ruined people's lives and not for the sake of God's word but for the sake of the Organization maintaining a reputation as God's faithful and discreet slave.

  The Bible IMHO is the only source we need to be able to preach God's word and many people are using it without having to be in a specific church.

  In chapter Matthew 10 Jesus was speaking to his apostles. He continued on to tell them to not only preach but to cure sick people, raise up dead and expel demons. This scripture is being directed to the apostles and not to us. It applied to his time.

  In Luke 4:19-21 Jesus said he had fulfilled the preaching work.

  In Acts 10:34 -43 Peter is speaking about those that witnessed Jesus' resurrection. He ordered them to preach. Again, not speaking about us.

  In Romans 10: 8 its says "The word is near you, in your own mouth and in your own heart:, that is the "word" of faith, which we are preaching." It doesn't come from a manmade source. It is in our hearts. That is what we preach.

  In 1 Corinthians 1:22-31 it talks about preaching and emphasizes that "God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame". It doesn't say he chose a worldwide organization. One that is strong and powerful. He chose everyday individuals who were weak and foolish.

  In 1 Corinthians 2:1-5 it is explained that "what I preached were not with persuasive words of wisdom but with a demonstration of spirit and power, that your faith might be, not in men's wisdom, but in God's power"

  There are so many more scriptures that speak of preaching and it's purpose, etc. In my opinion, most of them have already seen their fulfillment. None of the scriptures above indicate the information used to preach came from a worldwide manmade organization or that you must be in a certain religion to preach God's word.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  AFIN:

  Think maybe it was the wicked society that was destroyed at that time????

  Yeah, that's what it was. And that's what the earlier posters were talking about. (We've read a few 'towers in our time)

  Holly's not a cold-call, AFIN, you're not going to impress her with the standard "Hi, we're JW's and want to share a scripture with you" line. She's been there and done that. If you really can add to this conversation, please do so.

  Prove:

  1) that Jesus' words applied both in the first century AND today,

  2) that the preaching work he described could not be the overall Christian message being preached by all denominations,

  3) and that JW's alone are the ones fulfilling the verse.

  (Remember, you're talking to Holly, not me. So don't just blow her off with "ask an elder". She's here for answers, show her JW's have got 'em)

  Dave
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  a friend in need

  adelmaal ... you believe in the bible ... right? The bible tells us to preach and you agree with that too.

  In the bible at Hebrews 10: 24 we are told not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together. That's pretty hard to do without being organized.
• 

  a friend in need

  AA .. you have me all wrong. I'm not here to answer any and all questions you or anyone else poses. I felt like giving holly a scriptural answer .. you got a problem with that.

  From what i gather you are not yet df'd so being an active JW, why are you asking anthing you already know the answer to .. or is this your way of copying os?
• 

  Bryan

  afin:

  Hebrews 10: 24

  The bible also says "where two or more are gathered..." remember that one. It doesn't take a big organization.

  Bryan

  Have You Seen My Mother
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  I felt like giving holly a scriptural answer .. you got a problem with that.

  You know what, AFIN? You're right. I'm sorry. I pretty much went off on you. That was inappropriate and uncalled for. (In my defense, I am a creature of habit and I accidentally found myself downing my 3rd cup of coffee because it was sitting here in the pot and I usually drain the pot. [turns out I made 2 pots today] My hands are literally shaking, I must be edgy.)

  So anyway, sorry. Too harsh.

  My point is, Holly is a searcher. She really, truly, honestly wants answers. You're a "real" JW, as opposed to me. I don't believe the JW line anymore, you do. Holly's in the middle. So while you're not here to answer any and all questions just for the sake of it, it seems like you'd be doing Holly a huge favor to put a genuine JW set of proofs out for her. Doing so in this public forum would allow everyone to weigh in. If she goes and asks an elder, she'll have to re-state what he says here to get any other sides of the story. That would not be beneficial for her.

  Please do help Holly by sincerely and completely proving the JW stance on her question. And please do accept my sincere apologies for coming on so harsh.

  Dave
• 

  Leolaia

  The eschatological discourse in Matthew 24 (derived from Mark 13 and paralleled in Luke 21) concerns the destruction of Jerusalem and what was to shortly follow it. Mark presents both the Jerusalem invasion and the coming of the Son of Man in judgment as closely connected, which reflects the time when the gospel was likely written (i.e. shortly after AD 70). Some time has passed by the time Matthew was written (most likely around AD 80-90), and thus Matthew 24:27-25:30 adds a series of parables explaining the apparent "delay," and rephrases the disciples' question in Matthew 24:3 to explicitly refer to the "end of the world" because the reply to the original question in Mark simply assumed that the end would come along with the destruction of Jerusalem. Thus Matthew acknowledges the apparent delay of the parousia, and yet indicates that it would not be for very long -- for it would still occur in the lifetime of those who heard Jesus (cf. Matthew 10:23, 16:28, 24:34).

  The actual wording in Matthew 24:14 is: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to the nations, and then the end will come". The "end" referred to here is the same "end of the world" mentioned in the disciples' question in v. 3. Just as the disciples' question was reshaped by the author of Matthew to reflect a separate time for the "end of the world", so is v. 14 a Matthean redaction of the original phrasing in Mark 13:10: "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations". Note that the original wording did not refer to an "end", and it was followed by a description of the presecution that Christians endured for their efforts. As mentioned above, the "end" was not thought to be a time in the distant future (like, say, the 21st century), but within the lifetime of those who heard Jesus. The author of Matthew also had no concept of "inhabited earth" (oikoumené) being any larger than what was known in his own day (e.g. the Roman Empire). In this connection, Paul also believed that in his day the gospel had already been spread throughout the whole inhabited earth:

  "Not everyone, of course, listens to the Good News. As Isaiah says, 'Lord, how many believed what we proclaimed?' So faith comes from what is preached, and what is preached comes from the word of Christ. Let me put the question: Is it possible that they did not hear? Indeed, they did; in the words of the psalm, 'Their voice has gone out through all the earth, and their message to the ends of the world' " (Romans 10:16-18).

  In the same epistle, Paul referred to his "apostolic mission to preach the obedience of faith to all pagan nations (en pasin tois ethnesin) in honor of his name ... your faith is spoken of all over the world (en holó tó kosmó)" (1:5, 8). As early as 1 Thessalonians, Paul said that "the word of the Lord started to spread -- and not only throughout Macedonia and Achaia, for the news of your faith has spread everywhere (en panti topó), we do not need to tell other people about it" (1:8). Similarly, Paul writes in Colossians 1:5, 23 that "the Good News which has reached you is spreading all over the world (en panti tó kosmó) ... [and] has been preached to all creation under heaven (en pasé ktisei té hupo ton ouranon)". These statements were made even tho clearly the Christian gospel had not yet reached the frigid reaches of Siberia, the plains of the Americas, the isles in Polynesia, or the aborigines of Australia. Similarly, when Acts 2:5 says that "there were devout men living in Jerusalem from every nation under heaven (apo pantos ethnous tón hupo ton ouranon)," the author certainly didn't mean to say that there were Chinese, Sioux Indians, Eskimos, and aborigines living in Jerusalem in AD 33. Thus, there is no reason to interpret Matthew 24:14 as demanding a greater preaching area than was covered by first-century Christians, for expressions like "all the inhabited world" were commonly used to refer to what was already accomplished or being accomplished in the time of the apostles.

  And since Matthew expected the end to come very soon in the first century or early second century (cf. Matthew 10:23, 16:28, 24:34), the reference was certainly not to a future preaching work many centuries later.
• 

  Fe2O3Girl

  Holly, I know exactly what you are getting at, but, I just don't think that JW door-to-door work is fulfilling that prophecy, even if we assume that it applies to the late 19th century through to the early 21st century.

  The last time any JW knocked on my door was over two years ago. They did not mention the Kingdom of God, they asked if I would like to read their magazine. I said "No, thank you" and smiled, and they left. Does my everlasting life depend on this?

  For all the hours that JWs spend knocking on the doors of empty houses, or driving between territories, or even actually speaking to a real live person, what does the average member of the public know about JWs and their message? Probably that they don't accept blood transfusions and don't celebrate Christmas, possibly that they believe only 144,000 will go to heaven, which they think is crazy because they know there are more than 144,000 JWs but have no idea that they teach that they are going to live forever on earth. They never, ever, associate the JWs with preaching about God's Kingdom.

  Frankly, if they were my PR company, I would have sacked them years ago.
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  adelmaal

  In the bible at Hebrews 10: 24 we are told not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together. That's pretty hard to do without being organized.

  IMHO we are gathered together at this very moment talking about Bible topics. Are we not?

  I also gather together with my children each night and we have a study directly from the Bible. That is in my opinion gathering together as well.

  Also, I do believe in the Bible and I added scriptures to my above post. You might want to take a look at them.

  I personally read the Bible for myself, I study it and I share what I read with others. I do not rely on any man or organization to be able to do these things.
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  Jez

  Holly: The "whole world was destroyed by the flood". What did "they" know of the 'world'? Only their immediate locale, certainly they did not know about all the other continents that existed, nor even how vast the middle east was. Europeans began to settle North America in the late 1400s, early 1500s. My point is: the 'world' at that time was very small to the writers of the bible, even though there were other people/continents that did exist.

  There could have been a flood that covered a large area, but to them, it would SEEM to be the whole world. They would be right bec it was all they knew at that moment in history.

  So this scripture, "In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth...and then the end will come." referred to what? What was the "inhabited earth" at that time? Who was Jesus talking to? Can such ancient prophesies be applied to our day?

  IMO: Crazy to rely that heavily on such an ancient book written by ancient people that had ancient ideas about everything.

  Jez