OK, I HAVE to meet with the judicial committee. Advice?

by AlmostAtheist 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • Stradman

    Hello Dave,

    I am sorry you are being put through this manmade stupid process! Without knowing all the details of your predicament I dare say that trying to extend the process three months may be too risky.

    You could, of course, play the ?humble? card, tell the elders you are spiritually week and the whole Christmas thing was a mistake and that you need somebody to study the Bible with you and help mend your ways. How sincere you can make it sound may spare you a disfellowshipping.

    On the other hand, you may accept the fact that Christian freedom has a price and you may need to stand firm in your convictions and pay it, regardless of the pain it may cause.

    With respect to reaching out to the elders with arguments from the scriptures, you may try. If they are typical elders, they will hate someone trying to teach them something. This ?bad attitude? will compound your problems.

    The cleanest way to leave is writing a letter of resignation and walking away. This will spare a lot of pain and will keep the matter more private which, in the long run, may allow some to reach out and talk to you, especially your family members. As to the letter of resignation, I will make sure that each elder gets a personal copy AT THE SAME TIME or thereabouts. This will increase the chances that he will read it without the pressure of being in front of the others. This way you can get as personal as you want to the individual.

    These are my two cents. I will be praying for you and your family. May the wisdom and the comfort of the Lord guard you.


  • kilroy2

    unless you admited it, you can just say you rented a room to non dubber person and they decorated the place. tell them you sold your home [if you own it] and that the new owners to be came and decorated it, did they see the inside, or just the wreath on the door. and lights on the outside? come up with some reason it was not you that did it. if you admited that you did. its all over before you go give it up. and dont go, you are just wasting your time. you have one way you can delay the inevitable. call them just before your meeting and tell them you are sick and have to go to the dr. or a relitive is sick, some excuse, and post pone the meeting, you can only do this once or twice, then they will just have the meeting with out you, then when you cant do the patomic two step any more you tell them to kiss you big fat ass, not saying you have a fat ass,

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Gina's sister's (a "good" JW) baby is due in about a month and a half and she really wants to be able to hold the baby one time before we're DF'd.

    this one comment says it all about Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • Mary
    this one comment says it all about Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Yep. It really shows what a loving brand of Christianity they promote. Hell, I don't think even Satanism tells you to cut off all ties with your family!

  • XQsThaiPoes
  • AlmostAtheist

    THANK YOU, XQs! I was looking for that bit. It's not very damning -- they managed to answer without answering -- but it's a nice bit to add to the pinata article.

    Thanks again,


  • Leolaia

    Mary....Russell actually tried to salvage the date as the true date of the Annunciation the year before Jesus was born. But he was aware of the "pagan" history of the date:

    "Roman favor was so sweet to the church after so many years of persecution, that they were ready to make religion any and everything to suit the views of their new half-pagan friend Constantine. With his favor, the open opposition of others measurably ceased. Thousands, yes millions were brought into the church from Paganism. But the change was mostly in name, for the pagan priests became christian priests and the pagan holidays came to be called by christian names--Christmas being one of these holidays kept sacred to the memory of a great Goddess--since called the celebration of Jesus' birth though actually nearly three months astray" (Zion's Watch Tower, December 1881, p. 6).
    "We hold that the reckoning of time commonly used is substantially correct, as shown above. The difference which we claim as between it and the true date calculated from Jesus' birth is about three months. "Christmas day," which is reckoned the anniversary of Jesus' birth (January 1 representing the date of his circumcision eight days after) is mid-winter, and evidently does not comport well with the account of the shepherds being out with their flocks (Luke 2:8) It is supposed by some to have been placed December 25 in order to the better take the place of and transform an old heathen festival at that date, into a Christ-commemorating one--at about the time so-called Christianity becoming popular with emperors, was embraced by thousands of the heathen people" (Zion's Watch Tower, December 1883, p. 3).
    "I enclose you a paper giving you a concise sketch of the recent controversy between the priests of Babylon and Col. Ingersoll--the Goliath that only David could kill, and who is therefore still strutting up and down before the Nominal Church, the supposed agent and institution of Jehovah. Ingersoll, you notice, cannot force them to discuss the original propositions, viz.: Christmas a heathen festival, and Christianity with its eternal torment theory a doctrinal system of eternal hate" (Zion's Watch Tower, 1 March 1892, p. 80).
    "CHRISTMAS Day," in celebration of our dear Redeemer's birth, has for long centuries been celebrated on December 25th; and altho it is now well known that this date is in error, and that it more properly corresponds with the date of the annunciation to Mary, nine months before our Lord was born, and that he was born about October 1st,--nevertheless, since the Lord has given no instructions whatever upon this subject, and since it is proper to do good deeds and think good thoughts upon any day, it cannot be improper, in harmony with general usage, for us to remember in a social way our dear Redeemer's birth at this time. Our Lord Jesus was God's great gift to Israel and to the world, as yet appreciated fully only by the Spiritual Israelite. Through him also all of God's gifts are promised and to be bestowed. (Eph. 4:8) In view of these things, the custom throughout Christendom of making Christmas Day a joyful one, by the interchange of little tokens of love in the family, and to the poor, seems most appropriate" (Zion's Watch Tower, 15 December 1898, p. 371).

    "This review is perhaps as appropriate a lesson for the closing Sunday of the year as any, especially when we remember that all of these glories and blessings and privileges are ours because of the great redemptive work accomplished by him whose entrance upon the work is celebrated by Christmas day. Although we cannot agree that this is the proper day for celebrating the birth of our dear Redeemer, but must insist that it was about October first, nevertheless since he did not intimate his desire that we should celebrate his birthday it is quite immaterial upon what day that event, of so great importance to all, is celebrated. Upon this day, so generally celebrated, we may properly enough join with all whose hearts are in the attitude of love and appreciation toward God and toward the Savior" (Watch Tower, 15 December 1903, p. 467).
    "CHRISTMAS (or Christ's festival) by general usage is celebrated on December 25th; and since its commemoration is not enjoined in the Scriptures, but is merely a voluntary commemoration of a great fact rather than of a particular date, we do well to celebrate it decorously at the usual time;-- notwithstanding the fact that we disagree with the date, and hold, according to the evidences, that our Lord was born about October 1st, and that December 25th, nine months previous, was probably the date of the annunciation.--Luke 1:30,31" (Watch Tower, 1 December 1902, p. 362).
    "EVEN though Christmas day is not the real anniversary of our Lord?s birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord?s birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate??Christmas day.? The lesson for the occasion is a most happy choice, fitting well to the series of lessons it follows (Watch Tower, 1 December 1904, p. 364)".
    "This brings us to the second part of the appointed lesson, which stands more particularly related to the Christmas season. It matters not particularly that December 25 is not the anniversary of our Lord's birth, according to the Scriptural account; that really he was born about September 25, nine months later. One day, as well as another, will serve us to commemorate our Saviour's birth in the flesh, as a gift of God's love to a condemned and dying world. Indeed, in some respects December 25, which corresponds to the date of our Lord's annunciation or begetting by the holy Spirit in the womb of Mary, may be considered even more appropriate for celebration than the day of his death. Was it not there that the Father began the sending of his Son, began to give us the gift of the man Christ Jesus?" (Watch Tower, 15 December 1908, p. 380)
    "It matters not that December 25th is not the real anniversary of the Savior's birth, but probably the anniversary of the annunciation by the angel Gabriel, the anniversary of the Virgin Mary's conception, our Lord being born nine months later on the calendar, or about October 1. One so great, whose birth, death and resurrection from the dead mean so much to the human family, may be remembered and celebrated any day, every day, by all who appreciate what He has done for our race. Since, then, the majority of Christian people have become habituated to the celebration of December 25th as our Lord's birthday, we need make no protest, but join with all in celebrating that day with rejoicing of heart, giving gifts and remembrances one to another" (Watch Tower, 15 December 1915, p. 376).

    It is interesting that as Russell began to justify Christmas more and more, there was less mention of pagan origins. I wonder if there is a financial angle here, for Christmas was most often mentioned in early Watch Towers in book-buying drives to give Studies in the Scriptures as Christmas gifts to loved ones.

  • frenchbabyface

    JUDICIAL COMMITTEE ??? ... WOW ... the terme itself talks about the CRAP ... who are they ? (... did Jesus himself get into such BULLSHIT ??? please tell me if I've miss something) ... How dare they ? ... pfffffffffffffffffffffffffff ...

  • cruzanheart

    AA & FG, Six of Nine went throught the same thing right before his sister's wedding -- he managed to stall until it was over, but got DF'd eventually.

    A therapist is a good idea. After I left (willingly, not forced out by those bozos), I went through definite withdrawal symptoms: panic and anxiety attacks, thinking that I'd condemned our children to death at Armageddon -- you know the drill. My therapist, who had dealt with quite a few exiting JW's (she didn't tell me that until later), was WONDERFUL. She listened to me pour my heart out, and each week would give me a quiet nugget of information to think about. No brainwashing, just good common sense. It helped tremendously.

    Just remember you are the same people now, yesterday and tomorrow. Nothing and NOBODY can change that. If your family chooses not to recognize that fact, it's their loss. And if you can't hold that baby right now, you can still send gifts and be there when he/she runs away from that mad religion and needs someone to talk to.



  • AlmostAtheist

    Little update here, I called the elder that I had originally scheduled a little "doctrinal discussion" with, that later became the judicial committee. I called him yesterday evening, and he answered the phone sounding very harried. I asked him, "I wanted to talk with you for a bit, but is this a bad time?" He said, "Yes, actually, I have the kids right now [presumably his wife was outta the house]. Can I call you back tomorrow?" I told him sure and that was that.

    So today I got a call, but it was from two other elders on speakerphone, who said that my elder was busy today ("He has the kids") so they were returning my call. They introduced themselves (I only knew one of them) and told me that if I had any points I wanted to discuss, I could bring them up at the judicial comittee. Unless I am reading him wrong, I believe he was telling me not to call them personally, but wait until the meeting. I mentioned that it was actually a personal call to Ken, and I would call him back at another time. I asked if his wife was ok, thinking she was in the hospital or something. "She's fine," was the response.

    I've never been dealt with so coldly. I was DF'd once before, and I was an SOB at the time and knew full well I was going to be DF'd. Even in that committee, those guys were civil with me. But this guy, he's out for blood.

    I was calling to try to jam a little real truth down Ken's throat before I lose the chance, and tell them I won't be coming to their JC. Gina has a thread suggesting she might go, but I doubt it.

    They have exactly 0 authority over me. Go to a JC? Bite my shiny metal ass.


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