by Zep 75 Replies latest watchtower bible
Many Christians and Jews view the Bible stories -- especially the ones that appear a little more fanciful or naive -- as being metaphorical, not literal. And, to be fair, sometimes a metaphor is more powerful than an actual experience or some form of philosophical investigation.
Nonetheless, I don't consider myself a Christian.
B.
Perhaps there's another way of looking at your friend, M.J.
Don't discount the basis of experience. I know a guy that was raised in an athiest home and majored in geology in college but by his account, after his alleged spiritual encouter with what he believed was Christ, he totally put his faith in Christ.
Editing in red. B.
A Christian is a follower of Christ. I think you are confusing Bible-believers with "true Christians". Ask the question differently. "Can people today faithfully follow the example of Christ?" Even Jesus explained, patiently, that it is impossible to do on our own strength. I do believe there are Christians walking the earth today, and I do try to live up to the model myself. I depend on God's strength daily to follow through.
I doubt there are ten people on this planet who are living completely honest lives. They tend to die young. http://lyyra.kempele.fi/filosofia/weil.html
That whole "true Christian" whoo haa is a JW construct anyways.
Missy.......don't feel insulted. I think the word ignorant here has a meaning different than you see it.
Look how many of us were "ignorant" as Jehovah's Witnesses. We were not stupid, dumb, retarded, whatever a person might wish to call it.......rather we trusted. We trusted much that had to be taken on faith was true. We had to trust the old bastards in NY were telling us the truth. We believed they had the truth because what they taught made more sense than anyone else....and we "knew" there was truth somewhere and we trusted the dubs had that truth. Some do not trust that easy.
Some people are a little dumb and will swallow anyones sayings that sound a tad reasonable without question. However....most who fall for a religious tale are simply sincere people looking for answers.
Gumby
Missy,
The adequacy of a label is not solely to be judged by those to whom it is applied.
Why are you Christian, btw?
B.
Then there is the kind who disbelieves most of the stuff in the Bible unless it useful. Whether Jesus was the Son of God or just a very wise man, he said some really good stuff about not judging others, loving your neighbor, doing good to others like you would want them to do for you, and thinking about your spiritual needs along with the physical needs of life.
Merry Christmas!
Tammy
Then there is the kind who disbelieves most of the stuff in the Bible unless it useful. Whether Jesus was the Son of God or just a very wise man, he said some really good stuff about not judging others, loving your neighbor, doing good to others like you would want them to do for you, and thinking about your spiritual needs along with the physical needs of life.
But, is it really proper to call a person like that a "Christian"? Other men and women throughout history said and did "wonderful" things that most of us would like to exemplify. Would we call ourselves a Theresaite if we agreed with Mother Theresa's giving lifestyle? Or a Buddhist simply because we agreed with some of the Buddha's teachings?
Jesus was a theist, a believer in the Hebrew Bible and Hebrew God Jehvoah. He said some wonderful things and also some naive and nasty things (ie calling gentiles "dogs" and, quite likely, believeing in the destruction of people at the hands of Jehovah!).
Why the need to label ourselves, I wonder?
B.
But, is it really proper to call a person like that a "Christian"?
I don't think it is right to label anyone anything except what they label themselves. If such a person labels himself Christian, who am I to say otherwise?
I think the thing we tend to do as former JWs is to look at everything in black & white terms. The "I'm afraid there are only 2 ways " mode of thinking is ingrained in us from years of conditioning, and it is hard to break free of those old ideas. The us and them mentality pervading our society today keeps us from looking at so many alternatives to our belief systems.
I think this was true in Jesus' day as well, and that was the point that he was trying to get across to people. Maybe he was saying that even if you are a tax collector or a hooker, as long as try to live a good life and you show love for your neighbor, you are following his example and worthy of redemption.
Tammy
Though my tendency is to agree with the stance of the person who started this thread, I believe that such a limited choice to label those who identify themselves as Christians leads to the same label being applied to the non-Christian doing the labeling.
Its the close-minded viewpoint of the Christian 'believer' that allows a label of 'ignorant' to be applied. Thus, if a Christian held their beliefs with a twist of agnosticism, then they would be far more credible, less ignorant. There are some here on this site and I appreciate their comments and viewpoints very much.
There are so many variations or combinations of beliefs, including a vast mix of science with them, to discount that the 'truth' of this universe is so much more than just a 'I believe what I can see' outlook.
That being said, I'm definitely in the non-religous, non-Christian, non-faith class.
boa...
Being a Christian can be just about a philosophy of life, not really based on any "facts" from the Bible or science.
It's like saying you're happy, you don't have to have concrete reasons why, you can just be a happy person.
