The Global Flood

by coldfish 290 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • coldfish
    coldfish

    I've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.

    http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html

    My father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the JW but also belief in the bible. He was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 BC and how that fit in with the pyramids.

    I don't know much about Egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except Noah etc then at 3500 BC there were only 8 people on earth. His question was how fast can human population growth etc happen that huge empires with a large population could exist and build the pyramids by the time history said the pyramids were built. Did they breed like rabbits, is history off with the pyramids dates, is the bible wrong, etc?

    Any thoughts or knowledge on the subject is welcome.

    Debbie

  • dh
    dh
    is the bible wrong, etc?

    In a word... Yes.

    A book you might want to look at is Fingerprints Of The Gods by Graham Hancock... Great book.

    Why I say the Bible is wrong is for many reasons, one is because the Great Pyramids and most of the unexplainable stuff on the Giza plateau were built much earlier than conventional history would have us believe, there is geological evidence to prove this on certain monuments... Meaning that there were men carving and building massive structures from natural rock 15,000 years ago... I ranted on a similer subject a few days ago as pasted below...

    I would also add that there have been discussions on this forum in the past on the impossibility of our species rebounding at the rate it supposedly did, from 5 people to however many hundreds of thousands or millions when first census was taken (I don't know the figures but it is impossible)...

    Also do you think a physical Ark of the dimensions Noah's Ark supposedly was, could fit hundreds of millions of species in it? Remember we are talking literally hundreds of millions of species. I think not.

    If you really have interest in this subject check the book out I mentioned.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/81725/1334376/post.ashx#1334376

    My view tends towards that of authors Charles Hapgood, Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval, Rand Flem Ath etc. That at a point in history the Antarctic was closer to the equator and richly inhabited by intelligent human and animal life, as a continent it would have all the things required for an advanced maritine civilisation to develop (and flourish), the fact that there are maps from the 1500's copied from older maps which clearly detail the Antartic as two islands (as well as mapping many other things around the world which we did not 'rediscover' until recently), with modern day accuracy and understanding of the precessional cycle, longitude & lattitude etc. In my mind there is no doubt that there was a highly advanced and highly human civilisation at some point in our pre history.

    The theory of Charles Hapgood is that the earth's crust displaces every x number of years, (meaning that the outer skin of the earth rotates around the centre on the molten rock cushion in between) thus thrusting continents previously in warm climates into the freezing cold & vice versa, and explaining why an ice age happens... Perhaps not that an ice age happens everywhere at once, but that it happens in one point all of the time. The south pole is constantly in an ice age, it's just that if the earths crust moves, then the land mass under the south pole changes, and coveres land which was previously close to the equator with a sheet of ice.

    The very fact that ancient maps exist showing the Antarctic as two islands (a fact only recently discovered by 21st century man) is testimony to someone knowing and someone having charted this fact at some point in the past, the reason there is no 'evidence' in the antarctic is because it is burried under 2 miles of ice, this being said though, the unexplained evidence left scattered around the world is pretty compelling.

    To sum the whole ice sheet thing up, which makes more sense... The ice sheets are x many millions of years old and so the map makers who charted the Antarctic when it was two islands must have done so x many millions of years ago, or someone guessed the whole shape of the world with modern day accuracy and mapped things like coastlines and the amazon river, OR the ice sheets are just not as old as we think they are and someone mapped them say, 15,000 years ago... Bear in mind there are maps in existence (copied from older maps) which show the Antarctic as being only partly covered by ice, meaning that it was not and cannot have been so heavily covered with ice for as long as contemporary science would have us believe.

    As to whether this civilisation had planes or aircraft as we do... I've no idea, but it's more than fair to say that they had as good an understanding of the universe, the precessional cycle, mathematics, longitude/lattitde as I said, that we do now, things that we only recently learned were known way back many thousands of years. It's a fact that there copies of ancient maps, mapping out things which we only recently found. It is also fact that the megalithic and undated stone monuments (undated because you cannot carbon 14 date natural stone) around the world were built with technology which we even today cannot duplicate. This is a fact cut and dry, it takes 21st century man many weeks to shift a single 200 tonn block of granite with the strongest cranes in the world, the setup to do such a task is mamoth, but at some point in history on our planet, there lived a people who did this by routine, with accuracy that even todays most brilliant stone masons cannot comprehend.

    Further evidence of this the Sphynx at Giza, it is undated, though Egyptologysts try to give it a date around 4500 BC, and that is accepted and in all the books, but the truth of the matter is that it is a theoretical view based on some grafiti left there with a Pharoa's name on it, not on sound evidence, and the ego's of the Egyptological world will not hear otherwise, even though there is more evidence against the view. (reminds me of Planet of the apes).

    When Geologists studied the weathering on the Sphynx, it was beyond doubt that the weathering was and could only have been caused by rainfall, and rainfall had not fallen in such copious amounts on the Giza plateu since earlier than 10,000 BC, as such there are two explanations... Either there was copious rainfall in Giza for an extended period of hundreds if not thousands of years iin 4500BC (if there were then all the other monuments at Giza would have the same weathering which they do not), or the Sphynx was built when Giza was a green with vegetation and rain was normal... My view is that the stone speaks for itself. The weathering proves the age of the monument is from a time before ours, built with a technology beyond ours.

    So in answer to the question, do I believe that anceint humans once had advanced technology... yes.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    Well yes the bible is just flat wrong on this one (like so much else) as to the dates on the pyramids they know almost exactly when they were built! Conspiracy theories and alien help are really just foolishness the simplist answer is almost always the truth...

    MARK LEHNER, Archaeologist, Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, and Harvard Semitic Museum-LEHNER: It's not a direct approach. There are people coming from a New Age perspective who want the pyramids to be very old, much older than Egyptologists are willing to agree. There are people who want them to be built by extraterrestrials, or inspired by extraterrestrials, or built by a lost civilization whose records are otherwise unknown to us. And similar ideas are said about the Sphinx.---

    ---So you see the pyramids are very human monuments. And the evidence of the people who built them, their material culture is embedded right into the very fabric of the pyramids. And I think I could take just about any interested person and show them this kind of material embedded in the pyramids as well as tool marks in the stones and say, hey, folks, these weren't lasers. These were chisels and hammers and you know, people who were really out there.---

    ---It's a good question. If they were there, you see -- civilizations don't disappear without a trace. If archaeologists can go out and dig up a campsite of hunters and gatherers that was occupied 15,000 years ago, there's no way there could have been a complex civilization at a place like Giza or anywhere in the Nile Valley and they didn't leave a trace, because people eat, people poop, people leave their garbage around, and they leave their traces, they leave the traces of humanity.---

    ---Now the point is this. That it's not just this crevice or that nook and cranny or that deposit underneath this temple, but all over Giza, you find this kind of material. And as I say in looking for our carbon-14 samples, climbing in the pyramids you find the same material embedded in the very fabric of the pyramids, in the mortar bonding the stones together. So back to the question, is there an earlier civilization? Well, as I say to New Age critics, show me one pot shard of that earlier civilization. Because the only way they could have existed is if they actually got out with whisk brooms, scoop shovels and little spoons and cleared out every single trace of their daily lives, their utensils, their pottery, their wood, their tools and so on, and that's just totally improbable. Well, it's not impossible, but it has a very, very low level of probability, that there was an older civilization there.

    CASE CLOSED MOVE ON

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/howold2.html

    Now as to coldfish's question there is no way in the world that the flood could have happened when and how the bible says it's flat impossible... unless the women were having litters! Complete bull $hit!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    The bible and graham hancock are crap as far as the flood is concerned. It was a careful study of the bible's flood story that shattered my bible belief. Better than hancock, try alanf @ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/6040/flood01.htm

    S

  • MungoBaobab
    MungoBaobab

    Me too. I've always been interested in science and I became obsessed with proving the Flood, even though to call it a long shot was a supreme understatement. Proving the Flood meant proving the Bible. Well manybe it wasn't global, I thought. But that's not what the Bible says. Maybe all the animals weren't on the ark, I hoped. But that's not what the Bible says! It's just simply not possible. One geologist whose name I cannot recall stated that "Around the globe, there is only overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

  • coldfish
    coldfish

    Thanks for your responses, I'll have to do a lot more research on the matter, thanks for the suggestions of the books and websites. All it has done is raise lots more questions

    Questions like:

    What else is the bible wrong about? How long have people been on earth? (obviously longer than 6 thousand years like the JW say) What happened to those ancienct civilisations?

    I've always tried to explain the flood by saying well it was probably just a large regional flood that was described as global and probably just a few sheep and camels etc were taken on it. But if the flood was just regional then what wiped out those much older civilisations that had advanced technology? hmmm

  • TD
    TD

    Coldfish,

    An excellent write-up done by an ex-Witness that participates here from time to time can be found at this link:

    http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/flood01.htm

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    I am confused about the global flood as well. According to the most of the bible the global flood never happend and it was plot hole (it directly conflicts the Adam and Eve story). Meaning that the Global flood is a parabel, exageration (like the number of jews in the exodus and how much money solomon had), or some alternate continutity (like dream time).

    the concept of a global flood during noahs time shuld totally be cast out. Also notice how in genesis records a good and evil version of the same person leading up to noah. I think an example is Tubal-Cain. This reflects some weird mixing of something.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    Coldfish, You might want to whip a read on The Age Of Reason

    http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Hello coldfish!

    I too would recommend the links that TD and garybuss provided.

    From personal experience.

    So much to learn, and so rewarding.

    Craig

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