First off....big hugs to you buddy
...but just because I like ya....I still think your influenced by dub theology.
I'll be back later today......later aligator
Gumby
Can the Bible be used to disprove the Witnesses
by jaredg 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Perry
Heathen,
Women's status was greatly raised in the church compared to the cultures that existed at that time. How could a women prophesy and not at the same time be considered a teacher? Same as going for a ministerial servant of deacon or deaconess?
Consider:
- "I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Cenchreae, that you may receive her in the Lord as befits the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a helper of many and of myself as well" (Romans 16:1-2 RSV)
"Therefore, my brethren, whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm thus in the Lord, my beloved. I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. And I ask you also, true yokefellow, help these women, for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life." (Philippians 4:1-3 RSV)
Women Ministerial Servants or Deacons were evidently to have the same qualifications as men:
- "Deacons likewise must be serious, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for gain; they must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then if they prove themselves blameless let them serve as deacons. The women likewise must be serious, no slanderers, but temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husband of one wife, and let them manage their children and their households well; for those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 3:8-13 RSV)
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Perry
For a good discussion on Pauls possible meanings regarding women see:
My point is this; people need to accept all the scriptures about a subject not just one.
You still haven't provided any scriptural basis for why your believe that women had a different hope than men.
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Perry
I don't know why the link doesn't work. It works coming from other sites though.
Here's an excerpt:
Men and Women in Worship
How are men and women to behave and relate to one another in the church? This question and this particular passage have been on the minds of many in recent times. For many, the passage before us has been regarded as a major hill to be taken in an interpretive battle. But the teaching of 2:11-15 is just one piece in a larger puzzle, and by itself it is incapable of providing a complete answer. Specific circumstances required Paul to answer the question asked above in specific ways. The concern here will not be to generalize those specifics but rather to set out the issues that Paul addressed and those that we must consider in the church today.
When Paul instructed men and women (some think husbands and wives were specifically in view) in his churches (see also 1 Cor 11:2-16; 14:33-35), the immediate problem was disturbances in the worship service. On the one hand, changing attitudes about the man-woman relationship led women to assert themselves in the worship service in ways that threatened unity and perhaps also reflected a disregard for biblical and cultural distinctions between men and women. Disruptions by women included inquiring about the meaning of prophecies (1 Cor 14:33-35) and teaching men (1 Tim 2:11-12). But the present passage also reveals that the anger and arguments of some men were contributing to the disruption of the church's worship service. As pointed out above (see on 2:1), Paul drew upon certain material in such cases in order to restore peace to the community by encouraging appropriate behavior. In this his concern both for biblical patterns and for the perceptions of those outside of the church is evident.
His instructions are given in two parts. First, they encourage cooperative behavior among men in the worship service in relation to the specific task of prayer outlined above. Second, women are instructed concerning appropriate dress and then concerning appropriate behavior in the worship setting in relation to teaching. The Appropriate Demeanor of Men (2:8)
The NIV omits the word "therefore," which in the original Greek sentence connects the instructions to men with the preceding instructions about prayer. A connection is intended, as in fact Paul now lays down two principles to ensure the effectiveness of the church's prayer.
First, prayer that is acceptable must come from holy, purified hearts. The physical lifting of hands was important in the Jewish act of prayer. But the purity of the hands, originally a physical prerequisite to be fulfilled before one approached God (Ex 30:19-21), came to be symbolic of the condition of the heart. The early church understood such purity to be a condition of acceptable prayer (Jas 4:8). When we pray, our communication is with a holy God. He requires of us that we deal with our sins before making our approach.
Second, prayer that is acceptable must come from people in right relationship with one another. For this reason Paul adds the stipulation that our prayer be without anger or disputing. This principle too was widely known in the early church and goes back to Jesus' own teaching (Mt 5:23; 6:12, 14-15; Jas 4:3; 1 Pet 3:7). Simply put, difficulties in our relationship with God or in our relationship with fellow believers can hinder our prayer. The reference to arguments has the dissension caused by the false teachers in mind (1 Tim 1:6-7; 6:4-5; Tit 3:9-10). A divisive spirit had invaded the worship service, where unity was to be most evident. Interpersonal harmony is a resource of incalculable value for the prayer life of the church. The Appropriate Demeanor of Women (2:9-15)
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heathen
I agree I had some influence from the dubbies but I usually try to find stuff that makes sense in the bible , it's hard at times to isolate a dub teaching and remember what the bible actually says because they are very good at twisting things to their liking and I have read alot of their publications , it seems we are always proving them wrong on one issue or another . I also read the new testament in it's entirety , on this issue I am confident that the dubbies are wrong . To begin with the earth will be part of heaven anyway so to say no women in heaven would be wrong but the difference is with the co-rulership issue . The apostle Paul states that women would be saved through faith , childbearing and sanctification provided they have soundness of mind . Just quote rev 14:4 and see what kind of insane doctrine the WTBTS uses to exsplain that . These idiots tried to make me look like an idiot over this and I am still angry over that . 1st corinthians 11:3 , 1st corinthians 14:34 1st timothy 2:11
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Perry
Heathen, We are all dealing with the aftermath of a culture of brain-deadedness. Good luck to you on your path and may God himself guide you.
Perry