Can the Bible be used to disprove the Witnesses

by jaredg 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  jaredg

  Lately I have been arguing with my father about my beliefs and such. I belive that the WBTS is not the faithful and discrete slave and I don't agree with many of the WBTS techings. The easiest way for me to do this is to discredit the Bible but this isn't working with my father. He has challenged me to use the Bible, any Bible, to support my way of life. I have a girlfriend but we aren't involved sexually and I don't do any drugs and don't get drunk and stuff like that. In fact I could be a JW, moraly speaking, again except that I don't believe that the WTBS is the only way to God. Is there any place in the Bible that supports my theory that we should love, support and associate with kind hearted people even if that person, me, has been disfellowshipped. I'd really like to disprove this whole shunning thing first of all but I don't know where to start. I find it hard to think outside of the box from what I've been taught from childhood being raised as a JW. I'd like to study the Bible on my own but have yet to make the time for it.

  THANKS!!
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  Deputy Dog

  jaredg

  If you find a JW that believes the bible, it may work. But most JWs don't believe the bible, they only believe what the Watchtower says about the bible.

  D Dog
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  kj

  It's hard to use the Bible against them, because they twist scripture so badly anyway. Their own literature is their worst enemy, do some digging and show him some of their own contradictions.

  Sounds like you have a much more Christian lifestyle than most JWs.

  kj
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  Leolaia

  Is there any place in the Bible that supports my theory that we should love, support and associate with kind hearted people even if that person, me, has been disfellowshipped.

  How about the Parable of the Good Samaritan? In Jesus' day, Samaritans were viewed as ritually unclean and especially apostate in religious practices and beliefs. The parable explains better than anything I can think of the idea that one's neighbor is not just a member of one's own group but even those who are customarily shunned -- such as for their religious beliefs and being viewed as "bad associations" -- who should be helped and supported (indeed treated as brothers).
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  kj

  The story of the prodigal son is a good one, too. His father forgave him immediately, he did not have to grovel for any elders.

  kj
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  Narkissos

  Jaredg,

  I think you should really argue from what you do believe. If you feel more like arguing against the Bible than from it, it is better for you to do so, regardless of your father's professed standards. He might eventually come to appreciate your honesty.

  About "freedom of conscience" (an American keyword I guess), there is at least a text you could quote: "Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." (Romans 14:23.) If you don't believe you should join JWs, it would be a sin doing so. Would your father encourage such a sin (hypocrisy)?
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  Leolaia

  Oh yes, those two parables should be used together...they would make a powerful case.

  Bear in mind however that the Bible does not speak with one voice and some of the epistles are pretty strong in promoting the shunning of certain apostates (cf. the "antichrists" of 1 and 2 John), as they derive from a community striving to define itself against various factions and social pressures. I would guess that your dad would depend on these to defend the Watchtower position. Since your dad is a JW and would not consider the view that multiple viewpoints are expressed in the Bible, I would suggest you point out that the admonitions such as in 2 John do not apply to anyone who leaves the congregation or to all who stumble or sin, and similarly ask who the Parables of the Good Samaritan and Prodigal Son should apply to.
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  undercover

  Jared, I wish you luck, but I'm afraid you may be wasting your time. To JWs who at present have no doubts or issues with the WTS, they just aren't going to listen to you. I think you can present your case better by living a good, decent life, being happy(happiness by non- and ex- JWs just boggles their minds). Keep your eyes open for when your dad may question something the WTS prints or if an elder or CO irk him over some pharisiacal(?) point. If you can crack open a doubt when you see it, you'll get much further than beating him over the head with stuff he isn't going to listen to anyway.

  If you do debate with your dad, whatever subject you decide on, stick to that one subject. Don't let him jump subjects on you. God, they love doing that. They get stuck so they jump to another subject. Become an expert on your subject.. Inside out over under sideways down, know everything there is to know about that subject. Know the WTS stance in addition to what ever position you take on it. A lot of times JWs don't even know what they believe.

  If I was going to argue with a JW, I would argue the issue about 607bce being the destruction of Jersualem. If you prove 607 wrong, then the whole belief system comes crashing down. Without 607, the end times prophecy of 2520 years doesn't end in 1914. That in turn means 1914 is wrong. If 1914 is wrong, it's all wrong. You don't have to prove any other date right, you just have to prove 607 wrong. This one isn't as simple as saying the Bible doesn't support not celebrating birthdays, but it carries much more weight. I mean birthdays...who cares? This is about your salvation, arguing about birthdays or can I have a beard is nothing compared to false prophecy and deception.
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  ozziepost

  G'day Jaredg,

  Interesting question. The book of Romans (and reading it!) had a profound effect on many at Crooklyn back in the early 1980s; reading it with a receptive mind and heart would lead a dub to conclude that he/she had got it wrong.

  There's the small matter of the 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14 where the WTS sticks to a literal interpretation of the number yet claims that all else in those chapters is symbolic. Huh?

  Then there's the matter of the mediator. Again the WTS' misinterpretation!

  Other than that, there are so many misinterpretations of scripture that the dubs use, it'd fill a book or more!

  And it has - you can find many available at Randy's Freeminds bookstore http://www.freeminds.org/sales/menuframes.htm

  Cheers, Ozzie
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  jaredg

  Thanks for the tips guys....I want to express to my father that I'm not turning my back on God, Jesus, him or the rest of my family but I am turning my back to the WBTS. He tends to block all four together (Jehovah, Jesus, WBTS and my family) into one being so it's hard for him to distiguish who my distrust is aimed towards. He takes it personally. I want to show my father that I don't have to abide by the laws of the WBTS concerning reinstatement in order to be in God's favor.