Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune 160 Replies latest jw friends

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    What would it take to convince YOU?

    I know why I believe in a God and the afterlife. LittleToe has his reasons. Dansk has his beliefs and his reasons. And the vast majority of humans throughout history have come to the same conclusions we have - not in detail, but in the general sense that there is something more, something that seems mystical to us - something like 95 percent (I heard this on Contact, so I might need to research this ) have believed in things like special creation, divine intervention, etc...

    You do have a couple of points, which show your intelligence. One is that religion is no excuse for sloppy thinking. Another is that the existence of God would take extraordinary proof. We concur with you. We have been given that extraordinary proof, whereas you apparently have not.

    I had a post where I listed just a couple of the things that I considered my "special proof" but I was mocked, and laughed at. Shrug. I have said it. LIttleToe has a whole website somewhere. And Dansk is the one who is struggling with mortality - you might do well to listen to him. I know, you are 21, you think you are immortal. I'm 27 and that particular delusion is starting to fade. But if you are seriously looking for answers - rather than just trying to mock believers into acquiesence, then why mock what you don't understand yet?

    The Native Americans used to send out their young to survive on their own. That's how they learned there was a Great Spirit. The struggle to survive, the realization on how easy it is to die, hunger, privation... you came back to the community with a renewed sense of purpose and a new devotion.

    You have also said that this is a "useful delusion" - but how can any delusion remain useful for thousands of years, in all cultures and civilizations? How can the spirit world remain the crux of all arguments about what to do on earth, even after all this time and discovery and science? You shriek, why? I say, because it is true.

    What LT was trying to tell you through the Africa thing was this: Your spiritual Proof, which is what you are actually asking for, will come when and where it is most beneficial for you. If you can slide through your whole life without experiencing it, you probably will. But if you actually NEED the proof, then it will happen. It will be something you won't expect. Something that if you tried to explain to someone else, it would sound silly and trite. But in your heart you will know it to be what it is.

    Or not. Shrug. Not my problem, really. Sorry you agnostics feel outnumbered. It's um, because you are. But HEY, have a nice day! I make a point of being friendly to small minorities and to Put Them At Their Ease.

    CZAR

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    You have also said that this is a "useful delusion" - but how can any delusion remain useful for thousands of years, in all cultures and civilizations? How can the spirit world remain the crux of all arguments about what to do on earth, even after all this time and discovery and science? You shriek, why? I say, because it is true.

    because of our parents and their own parents and their own parents and their own parents ... (what did they know more than we do ?) it's all about education ... they give you a map and you deal with it ... some people get a look somewhere else (spiritually or logically) and come up with something new sometimes that's it ! but still NO PROOF about any divine thing (that still doesn't mean I don't believe in energy for instance)

  • kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
    kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

    Just because a large number of people believe n something - well, I don't find that to be a convincing argument about anything at all.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Elite through Religion and Education made us feeling that we can't be united ... It's truly a question of education :

    also sometimes you have to take people at their own game ... all that for capitalisme ? Good we are the consummers (and the producer) GLOBALY ! But moreover the consummers and even on a little scale it does count ! they need to sell their stuff (at any scale)

    I'm not happy with the way I've communicated here about that (sorry I'm too pationate about it - for you to feel what I mean exactly) : but to make it short to put things back in place : it's not about getting a perfect world (what is perfect ? to who ?) it's about perfecting our system globaly (the best solution at the right moment = any scale possible) further to further, little by little in having the possibility to be as lazy as possible (human = you can't escape it either) ... We do fear our weaknesses but we should used them in a positive way (again it's only strategic)

  • rune
    rune

    czarofmischief: So you have the same old story. Why did you even bother?

    frenchbabyface: You are making a good point (at least to me) about the way things should be...but um, some people other than us are hung up on past issues like, for instance, saying I am a youthful non-believer who just needs to be exposed to that almighty powerful spirit so I can be just like 95% of the world. 'Cuz hell, it's so simple, why didn't I think of it? The majority is never wrong, stupid, or misguided, right?

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief
    czarofmischief: So you have the same old story. Why did you even bother?

    Because feeding trolls is a hobby of mine... LOL! Tu es excommunicatis! Go forth and be damned... Your attitude just gave me a bit of a clue as to why believers used to burn your lot at the stake. Go buy a beer, you're old enough for that now. Some puppy can't even be trusted with decent car insurance rates and he's the Messiah of Nothing? Siddown, sir Chumpsalot, and whine till somebody changes your diaper. The same old story - which means you've heard it before - and this suggests nothing to that razor sharp intellect you've got? Careful, you are so sharp you're going to bleed all over your keyboard.

    I place this curse on you, whoever you are: A long happy life.

    CZAR

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    CZAR : Now ... that was very mystical !!! ... Oh well

    Rune, I'm sorry whoever you are
    you've made it hard to believe Man !!! ... But that's a good point for you somehow (you have to take it as a compliment), I just hope that you'll use it for the best / the good ...

    ... Can't we just forget about his age ! (moreover if you don't believe in it (???) = see that's also THE trouble ... And who care's for now that he could be a troll or not ?

    From what I can read, where is the bad ? ...
    Give him arguments ...

    We are not here to rate Rune, we are here to talk about a subject ... the subject is not Rune, neither the capacity to embrasse some phylosophy just for the sake of personnal needs... (you can talk hours about that ... the forum is full of it ...) ... maybe he just want to explore more than sticking on what we know or do agree with already ...So of course if you come over with an old story ...

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief
    We are not here to rate Rune, we are here to talk about a subject ... the subject is not Rune, neither the capacity to embrasse some phylosophy just for the sake of personnal needs... (you can talk hours about that ... the forum is full of it ...) ... maybe he just want to explore more than sticking on what we know or do agree with already ...So of course if you come over with an old story ...

    Hey, FBB, I loveya - and it is possible to discuss, debate, disagree without being dismissive, demeaning, or demonic. The subject of Rune being a troll? He asked a question designed to bring out the worst in people, struck at one of our weaker, longstanding members, and then refused to respond to assertions. How can somebody debate that?

    The subject is NOT being debated - Rune just makes a statement and then shouts that all who disagree with him are morons.

    Now for a statement that is beyond debate: Frenchbabyface is gorgeous! Hubba hubba!

    CZAR

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    Czar

    and it is possible to discuss, debate, disagree without being dismissive, demeaning, or demonic. The subject of Rune being a troll? He asked a question designed to bring out the worst in people, struck at one of our weaker, longstanding members, and then refused to respond to assertions. How can somebody debate that?

    It haven't been possible to discuss the matter here because actually we have ignored the real subject and it's orientation, and we've got into personnal consideration (whish was not needed in this topic) and then well you can stop the train that easy ...

    Also he have been witt but not offensive (to me) And he didn't say that he was taking anyone for morrons ... (He have wrote a chapter about that) ... I don't know but maybe people should read the message before to state how they should feel about it ...

    but well life is life ...

  • rune
    rune

    czarofmischiefb: Um, ok, so you're trying to live up to your name by repeating some of the same old wrong things that formerout and LittleToe said earlier in this post I take it? Is it possible you could drop it? I'm not going to repeat the replies I made the to them again and again to you.

    frenchbabyface: The lesson we should learn from them is life is too short to try to understand others. Mockery is so much easier than debating. Oh well, no matter, it just means I have to change my expectations when I post

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