Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune 160 Replies latest jw friends

  • rune
    rune

    This topic has been rolling around in my head for some time. I don't expect that I'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but I will do my best. And worst of all, I am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me. Please, someone surprise me.... Anyone. Just so I can know there are other human beings out there that think at least a little like I do. Ok here goes... And I'll make sure to avoid ANY swearing just so it won't seem as offensive...but please bear in mind this is a pick at humanity, not at anyone personally. So please, don't be insulted.

    I'll try to break this down into a series of questions, each followed by a more detailed description of what I'm meaning:

    1) Why do people need to believe in mystical stuff? For instance, no matter how much proof you think you have, no matter how much you believe what you've picked as correct or what you want to be true, there is no way you can know how the universe came to be, what humanity's united purpose is (if any, doubtful), where we are going, or what we are all doing here right now and why. The mundane details of life are right in front of us - live day-by-day, eat, sleep, find a way to pay for shelter and food and the comforts of life, socialize, grow older, grow experienced (I won't say wiser), and so on. Things we can see for ourselves... The details of life we know are true. But THEN, we take enormously huge questions that span a great expanse of information we couldn't possibly know, and every picks and chooses beliefs that custom fit them like they're picking out shoes from a store. If you can't bloody know, why delude yourself into knowing? I'm not looking for a 'some people just need to' answer here, because it's not just some people, it's almost everybody. It drives me crazy wonder why people spend time on these things, discussing which Angel is similar to what biblicar figure, when they are both characters in a book and if there was another holy book everyone believed in that was written a few millennia ago that said Bozo the Clown was a holy figure, then everyone would be arguing or questioning his similarity to other figures in history and his meanings of what he said etc too. What's the deal? Do people ever grow out of being children and just leave the belief in fairy tales behind or what? It seems not. Someone educate me on why people think spirituality is a tangible, necessary part of life, because I have none and see absolutely no need for it whatsoever. My best guess is it is a hobby some people enjoy, and spiritually-related things are one of the easiest most broad ideas to pick up to bring you into a community of other like-minded want-to-know-something-they-can't kind of people.

    *cracks knuckles* Ok. #1 done.

    2) Why do we think we're somehow special? Why do people consider themselves better than common beasts. Yes, it's true, we ARE at the top of the food chain. Why? Because we benefit from the products of an extremely small percentage of our races' ingenuity with technology. But it doesn't just span that kind of superiority. Angels are seen as men with wings. Yes, humanoid bodies with feathered wings. Come on. When a human dies it means something, but when we crush an ant it means nothing. I can see why this is, humans are more important to us because they're of our species, we can interact with them, they are our friends and enemies, our family, our lovers and associates......when a human dies the people that knew them positively weep at the loss of their companionship. But then mythology once again springs, we have souls and spirits and reincarnation and resurrection, all just because people can't accept that when someone dies they are a bloated corpse that becomes dust and bones like that ant I stepped on the other day without noticing or those microscopic lifeforms I kill every time I move my body. Then we get into the JW belief in blood being sacred. Come on! Water with red blood cells in it? What part is sacred, the mitochondria? I guess saying things like 'come on' begs common sense, which seems to be in short supply in some people when it comes to just NOT believing in something crazy and ridiculous. Blah, just thinking about this topic turns me off of it. I hope I got enough across to maybe pry some kind of answer from someone that doesn't just parallel the things that I said here that burn me when I think of them...

    3) Why not just accept that life is an unsolvable mystery and move on? Ever stare at those clouds rolling by without trying to explain them? Or that sunset? Science or no, the fact is the layman doesn't need explanation for the majority of things out there except for curiosity's sake. Why not just accept humanity's violent, messed up nature and just try to avoid bad situations, and deal with the ones that are unavoidable? Unclouded, mindless appreciation of what's around you - I am not seeing a whole lot of that. Someone please tell me they can walk through a beautiful forest without saying 'GAWD MADE DAT!' or thinking of forest elves or something prancing around. The light on the trees, the songs of birds.... It doesn't have to be a forest, it could be anything! Just letting the sensory experience be its own reward... not wishing to be somewhere else with someone else or in another time.... just happy and appreciating what isn't going wrong for you.... ahhh. C'mon does anybody do this?

    well I think 3 is enough for this rambling post... I'm sure I didn't explain it as well as I could have but hey it's 4 am and I don't know why I'm up. Off to bed for me.....

  • teejay
    teejay

    There is a relationship to your questions, so there's a single answer, IMO: humans have a highly developed brain which drives them to think there's more to life than this brief existence of eating, sleeping, passing wastes, and procreating, only to pass off into a void of nothingness forever. By believing we are special, even of Divine origin, they delve into the mystical to solve the "unsolvable mystery" you speak of.

    I encourage their sense of discovery. Perhaps someone will find some convincing proof and come back and tell us all.

  • rune
    rune

    I liked your answer - short but sweet. I have one qualm with it however: Solving the unsolvable?

    Heck, people are ignorant enough when they speak about the entire world, or even the entire human race like I did. But the universe and it's origins...? Physics?

    Sigh. Maybe science is your only hope then...good thing it's progressing. Perhaps through systematicizing the universe through mathematics - physics - will we one day understand and manipulate anything like the divine things we dream of. But not in this life, and not through mysticism. So why waste the time when you could be smelling the flowers?

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Hi Rune,

    (tongue in cheek): Why waste time on people wasting time?

    (seriously) Why do we speak, and read, and write, instead of "just living"?

    (N.B. I am not a believer.)

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    I understand what you mean ... moreover the fact that there is no reason for us to be more important to this eco-system than any other creature (even maybe the worst creatures - the so called superior brain doesn't seem to help or is it a question of mentality or lets say human kind culture ? And we know that we don't learn that much from the past, is that really smart ? even on a nation level ...)

    Also I join Narkissos on this one ... Communication (then what you are interested in for any reason just because it's you - with your experience, needs and little crazyness (that can help sometimes).

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    Amen bro. rune.

    Ken P.

  • Fleur
    Fleur

    Another Amen over here too.

    Especially for this:

    It drives me crazy wonder why people spend time on these things, discussing which Angel is similar to what biblicar figure, when they are both characters in a book and if there was another holy book everyone believed in that was written a few millennia ago that said Bozo the Clown was a holy figure, then everyone would be arguing or questioning his similarity to other figures in history and his meanings of what he said etc too. What's the deal? Do people ever grow out of being children and just leave the belief in fairy tales behind or what? It seems not.

    I said something identical the other night to my husband after my family was giving me the "return to the flock" lecture before saying they would continue to shun me at my own grandmother's funeral. I asked my husband why it is that grown adults need to continue believing in these fairy tale doctrines that god is going to bring the perfect world to them instead of trying to make their lives better themselves in the meantime? Convenient in a way isn't it? Removes all responsibility for their own happiness from them.

    I don't know if I articulated that properly but the point I'm trying to make I guess is that your post was great. You know, if people believe in something and it comforts them or brings joy to their life, good for them. I just wish that they could respect that I don't share that desire. But it never works out that way.

    ~essie

  • Tigerman
    Tigerman

    "Then, again it happened.

    The Spirit-voice of the forest came into him, creating an eternal moment in a magic land, where all life - man, animal and plant - was one. Living and dying together, forever interdependent. No wrong here. Like the joy of a sudden kiss from a shy child, the warm glow brushed deep into his heart. Then, abruptly, it was gone . . . his mind cleared and he was back."

    Just thought I'd share something with you; how I feel.

  • 4JWY
    4JWY

    Hi Rune ~ and welcome!

    You are reading my mind with your whole post. Now, isn't THAT kinda spooky?

    All kidding aside, my husband hears me routinely hollering out the same "Why, Why, WHY???"

    I told two sisters who came to the door after my walkaway, that if more people realized spirituality was a personal thing and that it needn't be tied to religion, how better off witnesses lives could be and conditions in the world. Why do dubs try to enforce THEIR form of "spirituality" on other's at their doors? They started to stumble for words and headed down the driveway quickly.

    If we had not always had the questions propounded of, "why are we here?", "what is the purpose of life?" ETC.... WOULD we have spent so much time in our own lives (if not JW), delving into finding answers, and/or proclaiming that we HAVE the only truth out there on the subjects? I keep saying that I'm going to take an informal survey of folks of all ages and see how many ask those questions on a regular basis, if at all.

    After we left, "worldly" friends sent us all kinds of material related to channeling.........insisting, "THIS is the WAY." My head was spinning with every word of explanation I read.

    Now, we firmly believe in the adage, "EAT, DRINK, AND BE MERRY FOR TOMORROW YOU WILL DIE."

    Enjoy life NOW!

    Cheers ,

    4JWY

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Good post to get people thinking, Rune - and welcome, BTW!

    1)Why do people need to believe in mystical stuff? For instance, no matter how much proof you think you have, no matter how much you believe what you've picked as correct or what you want to be true, there is no way you can know how the universe came to be, what humanity's united purpose is (if any, doubtful), where we are going, or what we are all doing here right now and why.

    While it's true that the overwhelming majority of people do believe in "mystical" stuff (e.g. because they feel/hope there must be something more to life) you are assuming that because you haven't experienced anything "mystical" it must be false. I've run the whole gamut of belief, disbelief and belief again. I see no reason to believe in an Almighty God - but I have the experience of knowing there is spirit. I don't say this lightly and I don't expect you to believe me - because you haven't experienced it!

    The universe came out of consciousness - consciousness cannot help but continue to create. Everything is interconnected, but unless one experiences it one cannot ever know. I know exactly why I am here and where I am going......but I don't expect you to believe me because you haven't experienced oneness.

    2)Why do we think we're somehow special? Why do people consider themselves better than common beasts.

    Again, you automatically assume we all think like you! I certainly don't think I'm special and I'm certainly no better than a beast or a flower. I'm a vegan (granted, it came about through my illness but my journey has been made known to me). All life deserves just that - life!

    3) Why not just accept that life is an unsolvable mystery and move on?

    Because it isn't an unsolvable mystery to ones who know! I'm not the grand master or expert here, merely an apprentice. I'm supposed to be dead but the spirit keeps me alive. I am travelling my journey and finding new things about myself and life every day. Read my earlier posts. I am not the same person as when I came here. I have experienced spirit. I have been touched by it. Because you feel you haven't been touched by it or seen some sign you automatically denounce the "mystical".

    Your day will come, Rune, when you open up to it. Only then will you know - but it may not be in this life, or even the next.

    Most people here have had enough of religion, I guess. So have I - but my journey has allowed me to encounter blessings/experiences not part of religion in its accepted term. I used to look outwards when, all the time, the truth was within. I'm only scratching the surface, but what a revelation.

    Sincere metta (loving kindness),

    Ian

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