Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune 160 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  rune

  frenchbabyface: Definitely...religion can be useful, but it also is another way people are divided. Divided people with opposing views - or even without opposing views, but some other conflict of interest - can be very dangerous to one another. Maybe love really exists in religion, but when you see the way some people are treated when they do not live up to the ideals or expectations of their faith, well...you can only wonder.

  formerout: Hm, well I had noticed some people saying things about my shortage of years? Perhaps you should read their replies again. I don't care if people are here to piss me off and tell me I am wrong - I wish they would tell me that, and provide sufficient argument why so I could improve my own views. Perhaps you misinterpret the tone of my writing as anger and hatred, when in fact I have a very calm and neutral mood most of the time. I am not venting. Many people make the mistake of assigning an emotional disposition to the author of what they are reading without knowing well enough what is really going on. I read the first portion of that post already, and I don't see how that relates to this discussion at all. Not everyone went through the same thing that man did, and not everyone should be looking to having their opinions stroked and rewarded, misguided or not. Subjectively, some opinions are better than others. The series of replies you have been making to me indicate you are still putting too much emotion and sensitivity into a simple thread, so I think it would be best if you stopped reading this one. I am not trying to say anything insulting by this, it just sounds like you don't understand that my intent is not to be offensive, nor am I angry, lashing out or venting at anyone. I haven't taken any offense from this thread or any at all, ever. I am sorry that you are unable to read my posts with an objective, clear mind.

  Narkissos: I see what you are getting at now. In that manner, yes, you are right - however, it really depends on where you draw the line at where that addition is being made, and where the functional rationalization begins. If I am inspired by a beautiful painting, I could think that the function of the painting was to inspire people, for instance (even if that was not the intent of the painter). Is that painting "useless", or "useful"? Can a practical purpose be simply one of giving enjoyment? Perhaps you are right about desire, so long as we do not generalize to all people...some people may not want completely new and unique experiences. But to tie this back to believing things with faith, does this desire we have necessarily mean we must yearn for things that do not exist? For it could be said that desiring things in this world that you do not have, or, are not a part of, is one thing, but desiring things that are not in this world is quite another. Is it possible to make a choice? I feel as though I have. The point of doing so would be that the ones you can desire in this world are attainable (or at least visible), whereas it seems the latter are not. Since our time in this life is finite, should we not strive for the things we can get in the span of our lives, rather than reaching for the invisible and hoping everything will turn out all right? It seems sometimes, when I watch, to some...mysticism is a dream waiting to come true.

  frankiespeakin: I am not sure what you mean by that...

  formerout: Please stop taking offense to me. You are not contributing to the discussion.

  LittleToe: What does it seem I am not listening to? I have replied to everyone's comments. Dansk should be thanking his own body, and perhaps medical technology (I don't know the specifics), for being alive today. Getting together to pray and sending healing energy is ok, but I only see that as getting together to spend some warm moments with fellow people who know what it is like to be in that situation. Despite the weight of such things to Dansk and others with cancer, I do not hold them with any more weight than another unfounded superstitious practice or belief. My condolences to Dansk if any harm was derived from my replies. If "delusional" seems too strong a word, maybe it is the sensitivity of the issue that begs your reply rather than actually thinking about the situation. Judging from the replies I am receiving from certain individuals however, perhaps my words for "condemning" people should be toned down. I'm not sure - should I change, or should some of you? Avoidance is another option...my uneducated, youthful and inexperienced words should be a trifle to you veterans anyway. ;)
• 

  xochsi

  wow.

  some of you older, wiser forum assists sure do take this shit serious, don't you? Give the kid a break and stop beating up on him.
• 

  frenchbabyface

  Xochsi : Give the kid a break and stop beating up on him.

  the kid (not more not less than any adult can be) is kind of aware ... and what some may call "anger" could just "tired of" (the obvious troubles) and an attemps to not turn around the subject, in being clear (and direct, which doesn't mean harsh) in expressing his views.

  Dansk/Ian,

  I believe in what i'm doing (because it's about energy here - and even more subtle, I would say vibes ...) otherwise I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't tell ... Also you tell us, it does help you and that's enough for me to stand on it (whatever the way or the reason it works) also it's more really about love here (than mistiscme and that's when reality join the mystic and can do miracle)
• 

  formerout

  Rune,

  Your true personality has become evident to most of the posters here. Your arrogance has become an irritation to those of us who originally became involved in this discussion for the primary reason of contributing to your own mental well-being.

  Despite your denial that I or anyone else can give you objective advice, there has in fact been a tremendous amount of GOOD advice put forward. Just because you want to take those well-intentioned thoughts and twist them into something negative doesn't mean that the authors of such thoughts have to do anything other than stand behind their true intention......... to honestly help you.

  I have "quit" very few things in my life. When my intention has been as genuine as mine has been in this post, quitting has been almost not even fathomable. However, I leave this topic feeling very sure of the fact that any good intention that I have had has been twisted so greatly that I no longer want to admit to the fact that I am the author of such thoughts.

  Your impression of me is so tainted that it really is NO part of who I really am.

  Brad
• 

  rune

  frenchbabyface/Dansk: Love is undeniably important, and the human body has been proven to be able to bring about remarkable effect in itself when the proper stimuli are applied. Mysticism or not, support from caring friends and belief you can make it through something are definitely not useless - and you are trying to hold on to life! What could be more important? Few if any things. I never meant to denounce anything you were attempting to do in such a way as to overcome this terrible malady. Besides, my life is not threatened - what could I know?

  formerout: My mental well-being has been tried and true through many things, so no one needs to worry about that. My questions were purely an intellectual endeavour. I am not twisting anything into something negative. Perhaps if you feel such negativity emanating from my words, that is your contempt for me or the way I say things that causes you to think like this - who can know? I was looking for a little understanding, perhaps, if there was any to be gained from posing these questions. Some people have made some pretty interesting points that have made me think so far. My impression of you is based solely on the words you have spoken here, as that is all I know of you. It is clear you are taking offense, but whether you are angry, sad, frustrated, or neutral is unclear, so I do not think about this - I suggest in the future you do the same.
• 

  teejay

  I was looking for a little understanding, perhaps, if there was any to be gained from posing these questions.

  I didn't read this entire thread... just skimmed mostly... stopping here and there when the mood struck. Reading your comments to various ones and theirs to you, your quote here makes me wonder...
  
  Were you really, I mean sincerely interested in understanding? In "gaining"? The reason I say that is because you are obviously bright?I really enjoy bright people?and had already given the topic a lot of thought. Coming in, you had, as far as I could see (and I could very well be wrong), already made up your mind. People who are in such a settled and comfortable position of KNOWING are rarely seeking to gain. I know. I've been that way too many times myself.
  
  The only way we can truly gain is to come to the discussion open-hearted and empty-headed. By that I mean, to put aside, as best we can, our own thoughts. To approach the subject as a child who's totally knew to the topic. And then listen. You can always go back and pick up?even embrace as superior?your own previously-held thoughts on the way out.
  
  I say this as a potential friend. FWIW.
• 

  frenchbabyface

  Sorry to answer as it is not destinated to me Teejay, but

  People who are in such a settled and comfortable position of KNOWING are rarely seeking to gain. I know. I've been that way too many times myself.

  How do you know that TJ ? (you've been that way yourself ... that is what you say it just means that was you then ... but read (2)) Also people can do the same thing for different reasons ... and for the same or different reasons some go from point A to B in different ways.

  The only way we can truly gain is to come to the discussion open-hearted and empty-headed. By that I mean, to put aside, as best we can, our own thoughts. To approach the subject as a child who's totally knew to the topic. And then listen. You can always go back and pick up?even embrace as superior?your own previously-held thoughts on the way out.

  (2) sure but then : it's a process ... (as specific and unic human being) ... also it's about to get somehow answers, so when your not satisfed about an answer the process is not done and your questions and remarks will be based on your last statement on the matter is ... and there is nothing to realy embrace as superior (subjective) but just most realistic (objective) on different bases and matters at the end.
• 

  rune

  teejay: frenchbabyface put it well. Perhaps we are not on the same journey, nor am I in the same state of mind you were when you supposedly thought you were in a "comfortable position of KNOWING" as you say. As well, I am not sure why it is coming across that I think I absolutely know everything for certain. When I, or hopefully anyone, makes a statement, it is a theoretical assumption rather than a statement of certainty. In a direct discussion, arguments are put forth, and the rebuttal tries to show how the argument is not solid. If I can think of something I see as a good rebuttal for what someone has said, I will say it, hoping that they will think of something to disprove what I have said, and so the cycle continues. This is how a discussion like this can help people think. If everyone just states their views and then accepts the others' views without challenging them, there is little to gain of understanding. And so, yes, I am sincerely interested in it, and I attempt to achieve it in the fashion I see as best. Unfortunately it does not seem some are open to it. I have a brother who reacts in a similar fashion. Some people cannot hold their emotions firm while engaging in an objective debate; they start to believe that the rebuttal is actually attack on their person simply because their argument from their mind was brought under fire, that it somehow relates to them being stupid or foolish - when this is not the case at all. The only thing foolish about it would be to believe that your views are so great that any argument against them is an insult or absurd. Empty heads are not required in this case. In this manner, a debate results in collective thinking, rather than each one taking the others' information away by themselves and making what they can of it. Your question was not without basis however, given the words I have had with a few other people here - in fact it was necessary that someone asked it to further clarify my position here, so I thank you for doing so.
• 

  LittleToe

  Rune:Of course you're quite right, the intrinsic quotient for the sum metaphysical energy in the universe IS inversely proportional to the mass of a single black hole. I couldn't agree more.

  I replied to ya, hence I must have been listening to what you were saying, right?

  Likely another post wasted...

  Btw, I agree with NancyDrake, from another of your threads.
  I smell a rat...
• 

  rune

  LittleToe: Obviously you did listen enough to decide to make that mock post. Are you saying you don't understand what I write? It seems that way, regardless. Feel free to exclude yourself from the discussion if this is the problem. Nancy Drake? Are you referring to my recent thread in which she thought I was someone named Terry? You are mistaken.