A religion with nothing to Celebrate (page 9)

Sad emo

Sorry purps these day the only time I go into church is for weddings which is personal choice becasue it involves god's institution of marriage

If I go into a church to take part in worship to a false god then I am commiting a sin out of my wishes my heart.

So is a church wedding the true God's institution or a false God's institution?

And whilst you're in the church do you not think that you are taking part in the wedding service?

HINT: If you're there just as a cold observer that is ok (but why waste your time being there?!) If you're there to SHARE in the happy couple's celebration, then like it or not, you ARE taking part in the ceremony/worship, even if you aren't saying the prayers and singing the songs!

http://www.hitched.co.uk/planning/trads/tradshome.aspx/index.asp

http://jesus-messiah.com/html/wedding_rings.html

Just something for you to think about...

Mad Dawg

Ren my dear, just hoping you can help me.

If it is wrong because 90% misuse it, how can you baptize someone when 99.9% misuse it?
How are JW's allowed to keep Egyptian gods (cats) in the house?
How can you have a party at all?
So many bad things happened at parties in the Bible, can you show me where we are commanded to have a party?
If you have a party, what are you allowed to celebrate?
Am I allowed to celebrate my anniversary 5 months later because it is a better time, or I just feel like it?
Because Mazda is a pagan god, would you drive one?
Would you drive a Taurus?
Would you wear a wedding ring?
Do you use the Gregorian (Catholic) calender?
Do you honor pagan gods by using their names for the days (Saturn)and months (Mars)?
Would Christmas be good if we left out Santa, Christmas trees and all that?
Do you apply the same standards and reasonings to the rest of your life that you do Christmas?
If not, why only Christmas?

Finally-Free

I love the way Jehovah's Witnesses condemn celebrations like Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving and New Years while still accepting pay for not going to work on those days. If they had any integrity at all they would shun the money as well as the celebrations.

W

reniaa

mad dawg did you actually miss my point misuse is not the issue, re-dedication of pagan practises from other gods to Jesus is the issue, ones that haven't gone out of practise but are still being dedicated to santa or to xmas itself instead of Jesus by many.

cats are a created thing so is the sun they were around before they became objects of worship so having them isn't an issue, these are not pagan practises for worship but things that became a focus for worship that is a big difference.

Again having a Party is not the issue, these are specific rituals for specific gods redicated to Jesus. midnight mass was for mithra originally they made it over to Jesus would Jesus want a mass from another god made over to him?

If we still did human sacrifices to various gods would they be okay if we did them in Jesus's name?

You are mixing pagan practises with just using the same name or items like wedding rings. A ring on a finger it is not and never has been an object of worship. God recognises marriage from every nation and tribe not just christians so we have to recognise it too. We have to make a personal choice and yes I would be cold to the worship part but I would be warm to the God blessed commitment 2 people are making to each other.

erm would christmas be christmas if you left out all the pagan rituals and lies that came with it?

Mary

Reniaa: I am still waiting for an answer from you regarding the wearing of wedding rings and baptism. Both have their origins in paganism, yet Jehovah's Witnesses are regular observers of both.

Care to explain why they can partake of these 'pagan' practices but not celebrate a birthday?

Mad Dawg

Thank you for your response, Ren, it is appreciated.

mad dawg did you actually miss my point misuse is not the issue, re-dedication of pagan practises from other gods to Jesus is the issue, ones that haven't gone out of practise but are still being dedicated to santa or to xmas itself instead of Jesus by many.

Baptism was originally a pagan ritual in honor of pagan gods. How is it ok to "re-dedicate this pagan practise from other gods to Jesus"? Why is this not an example of the Bible putting its stamp of approval on this?

cats are a created thing so is the sun they were around before they became objects of worship so having them isn't an issue, these are not pagan practises for worship but things that became a focus for worship that is a big difference.

I am afraid I don't understand you here. Would it be alright to bring a pine tree into my house and decorate it (as long as there are no pagan symbols) because it was "around before they became objects of worship so having them isn't an issue, these are not pagan practises for worship but things that became a focus for worship that is a big difference."?

Again having a Party is not the issue, these are specific rituals for specific gods redicated to Jesus. midnight mass was for mithra originally they made it over to Jesus would Jesus want a mass from another god made over to him?

What is your source for you claim about Mithra? Mass has always been the rememberance of the death of Jesus. Christmas was originally simply a mass said in remembrance of Jesus' birth. I have read many early documents (translated into English) and have never seen this claim before. If we can rededicate baptism, why not Christmas?

If we still did human sacrifices to various gods would they be okay if we did them in Jesus's name?

This is silly for two reasons: 1) We, as Christians have never done human sacrifices to various gods. 2) Murder is sin in and of itself.

You are mixing pagan practises with just using the same name or items like wedding rings. A ring on a finger it is not and never has been an object of worship.

So, what's wrong with a Christmas tree as long as it is not and has never been an object of worship? Cats were an object of worship in Egypt. How can you bring a pagan god into your home? If it is ok to use a pagan name for something, then why is it a problem with Christmas?

erm would christmas be christmas if you left out all the pagan rituals and lies that came with it?

ABSOLUTELY, YES! In fact, it would be a most pure expression of the holiday.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I am not a JW, but am trying to understand their thinking on things.

MD

Will Power

If we still did human sacrifices to various gods would they be okay if we did them in Jesus's name?
This is silly for two reasons: 1) We, as Christians have never done human sacrifices to various gods. 2) Murder is sin in and of itself.

Would that include the ultimate test of JW worship - death by refusing a life saving blood transfusion or fractions for massive volume loss then having your story worshiped in the WT mag?

Mary

Reniaa said: You are mixing pagan practises with just using the same name or items like wedding rings. A ring on a finger it is not and never has been an object of worship.

So are you saying that something that's "pagan" is okay, as long as it's not an 'act of worship'?

isaacaustin

christmas/Yuletide is not a christian celebration isaac it is pagan NOW, probs 90% of those that celebrate do not even give Jesus a thought they are more worried about making their kids know santa will give them a present. If it was truly a day to Jesus it would be that to 100% not just the few Christians that try and cling to the lie of his birth to do all the pagan rituals involved in Christmas.

My reply: Again, it is the spirit behind why it is being done. If it is done simply to party and get gifts it would not be Christian in nature. Many Christians observe Christmas to give honor to Jesus...and the joy of receiving the greatest gift possible is behind every gift they give. This was the point of Paul's statements.

Do you think Jesus wants recognition by pagan practises that were originally dedicated to other gods? and are still done to santa a non-existant Person that is coming to be worshiped as a god by non-christians?

these were and are unclean practises to Pagan Gods why would doing them to Jesus make them clean?

My reply: Human reasoning here verses clear scriptures that give the Christian freedom in this area.

lying is a unclean practise in the bible but it's okay when you dedicate the lying to Jesus?

My reply: The Bible does not give us freedom in this area. ironically though, the WT takes it anyway- theocratic warefare strategy.

You don't think when children learn about all these 'lies' that okay because they make christmas fun for the kids a 'fairytale fun day' that Jesus whom who you mesh with all this won't be similarily viewed as a a fairytale and lie by them?

My reply: Again, a genralization of the acts of some to everyone. Logical fallacy on your part.

Many times there are examples of Jehovah's people converting those who had become paganised back to pure worship. In every case the very idea of retaining the icons and the celebrations but rededicating them to Jehovah is simply not an option. They always removed all the religious items and completely destroyed them. They never ever ever rededicated anything to Jehovah.

My reply: Elaborate and be more specific. Are you talking of Biblical examples or WT examples?

We are told to give up pagan worldly ways not give them a make-over and rededicate them to jesus to make them acceptable.

My reply: We are not told it in the way you are saying. Of course we would not take an idol and rededicate it. Regarding days, the Bible is crystal clear that any day a Chrisitan chooses to set aside is not objecitonable to the Lord.

reniaa

hamsterbait

Ren said:

"lying is a unclean practise in the bible but it's okay when you dedicate the lying to Jesus?"

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAA

Reniaa - have you heard of "Theocratic Strategy".

HB

A religion with nothing to Celebrate

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