A religion with nothing to Celebrate (page 7)

Barbie Doll

Beksbks-----I love Christmas too. We should get together at Christmas.

hamsterbait

Mary MARY !!!! can you hear me?

I have a loverly pharmacist. He can provide you with the necessary calming medications you need on threads like this.

Please dont put yourself in an early grave from ANGER, FRUSTRATION and ASTONISHMENT.

We need you here.

Find a good witchdoctor, or just pay the local Satanist coven!!

OXO

HB

reniaa

So Reniaa.....please show me a scripture where it says you can't celebrate the birth of Jesus? Or anyone's birthday. Just one scripture......

Hi mary

negative reasoning and a cop out, I am not a jew we live by principle as christians and the scriptorial principle of no association with pagan practises, the burden of proof is on you to prove it isn't pagan and you cannot because it clearly is! as I said earlier the pretense that it has anything to do with Jesus's birth has been ripped away years ago, it is not even his birthday if that is any justification.

I don't just look at scripture I look at themes of the bible and adoption of celebrations that are clearly from the world around the chosen people is very frowned upon especially if it becomes ritualistic and an act of worship.

the title of this thread is....."A religion with nothing to Celebrate" you say you don't condemn me for not celebrating these pagan festivals you all enjoy but the condemnation is in the title and in numerous posts that followed it. the implication is that even if we have holidays and parties etc they are not as good as your christmasses/birthdays/father'sday etc they are faulty in some way.

The implication with christmas and to a lesser degree the other celebrations... is that of giving them some sacred perfection by virtue of being what they are that takes them beyond just being a party full of good food and family and friends and I say this is when it become part of your worship and something sacred to people. And this is what makes them wrong for Jw's.

1 Peter 2:12
Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

So I ask again...

Are the witnesses wrong for not celebrating these festivals as this whole thread implies?

Will Power

excuse me, but this whole pagan crap is driving me nuts.

In order for someone to worship pagan gods with evil rituals such as christmas, birthdays whatever - wouldn't you have to BELIEVE IN PAGAN GODS?

WHO THE HELL BELIEVES IN PAGAN GODS?

obviously Reniaa does and the rest of the scaredy cat JWs.

If they actually believed in their precious bible and the one true god they ALONE worship correctly they'd see that Jehovah himself said there are NO OTHER GODS.

are you calling jehovah a liar?

how can you accidently worship something that you do not believe exists?

wp

reniaa

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 (New International Version)

4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

isaacaustin

Hi mary

negative reasoning and a cop out, I am not a jew we live by principle as christians and the scriptorial principle of no association with pagan practises, the burden of proof is on you to prove it isn't pagan and you cannot because it clearly is! as I said earlier the pretense that it has anything to do with Jesus's birth has been ripped away years ago, it is not even his birthday if that is any justification

My reply: Paul makes your entire argument irrelevant reniaa: Roamns 14

4

Who are you to pass judgment on someone else's servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5

(For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. 2

6

Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.

7

None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself.

I don't just look at scripture I look at themes of the bible and adoption of celebrations that are clearly from the world around the chosen people is very frowned upon especially if it becomes ritualistic and an act of worship.

My reply: Themes and origins that have long lost their meaning. The Wt acknowledges this on an array of topics and that on many things origin does not matter....they pick and choose what.

the title of this thread is....."A religion with nothing to Celebrate" you say you don't condemn me for not celebrating these pagan festivals you all enjoy but the condemnation is in the title and in numerous posts that followed it. the implication is that even if we have holidays and parties etc they are not as good as your christmasses/birthdays/father'sday etc they are faulty in some way.

My reply: We do not juge the WT for not celebrating (at least I don't). We speak out against the WT for breaking Pauls words and condemning those who choose to observe.

The implication with christmas and to a lesser degree the other celebrations... is that of giving them some sacred perfection by virtue of being what they are that takes them beyond just being a party full of good food and family and friends and I say this is when it become part of your worship and something sacred to people. And this is what makes them wrong for Jw's.

My reply: Again, refer to Romans 14 1-5- Paul makes quite clear there is nothing wrong for one to set aside a day for worship.

1 Peter 2:12
Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

So I ask again...

Are the witnesses wrong for not celebrating these festivals as this whole thread implies?

My reply: Your 1 Peter verse is in now way related to the point you are trying to make. It says to live good lives- it takes circular reasoning to then say "Christmas is bad so you are not living good lives if you celebrate it..." The witnesses are not wrong for not celebrating it. They are wrong for condemning others who do, as well as for taking on the feeling of superior righteousness for abstaining. The Governing body is even more guilty for robbing them of the Christian freedom spoken of in Romans.

Will Power

exactly - eat the cake, open the present, BBQ that bloody meat.

because YOU KNOW THAT IDOLS ARE NOTHING you can't make them higher than your jehovah by hitting a pinatta.

Paul is acknowledging that there are people living in the superstitious world and you have to be careful not to feed their superstitions like JWs. They are one of the most superstitous bunch left on the planet. Their faith is weak so they are afraid of cake demons.

wp

LUKEWARM

Are the witnesses wrong for not celebrating these festivals as this whole thread implies?

Reinaa, the WTS are wrong in the context of not allowing the individual to make a personal decission especially when the Scriptures are silent on the matter.

Should the WTS outlaw Christmas or leave it to the conscience of the individual as to how or even if they should celebrate it?

I don't celebrate Christmas Reinaa nor am I interested in celebrating it but the issue is that the WTS denies its members the freedom of choice and that is such a contrast to the reasonableness that Russell displayed, namely:

"Christmas Day, in celebration of our dear Redeemer's birth, has for centuries been celebrated on Dec. 25; and although it is now well known that this date is in error...nevertheless, since the Lord has given no instructions whatever upon this subject, and since it is proper to do good deeds and think good thoughts upon any day, it cannot be improper, ...for us to remember in a social way our dear Redeemer's birth at this time."(Zion's WT, Dec. 15, 1898-pg.370).

"It matters not particularly that Dec. 25 is not the anniversary of our Lord's birth, according to the Scriptural account; that really He was born about September 25, nine months later. One day, as well as another, will serve us to commemorate our Savior's birth in the flesh, as a gift of God's love to a condemned and dying world."(Zion's WT, Dec. 15, 1908-pg.379).

Will Power

Thank you Isaa. Well said.

When my husband all of a sudden STOPPED CELEBRATING it was really hard on the kids.

He printed out pages on the evil attached to our family gatherings that made it impossible for him to continue.

it sucked the joy right out of all of us.

wp

hamsterbait

I have stopped celebrating all the rituals and ceremonies and festivals since I learned from my home Babble Study course with Jehobas that blood is sacred and not to be used for any purpose, other than extracting the bits to save the lives of the GB.

How can I drink babies' blood when I know that Jarasz could have been saved by fractions from that cup?

HB (formerly satanist - not jet jehoobist)

A religion with nothing to Celebrate

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 (New International Version)

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