So is there a new stance on B-days or what? Someone please explain........ (page 5)

Kenneson

In the case of Pharoah's birthday, it was to show that a good thing happened to the cupbearer and a bad thing happened to the chief of the bakers. It was this spared cupbearer, who told Pharoah about Joseph the interpreter of dreams. Because Joseph interpreted Pharoah's dream he was made a ruler in Egypt, second to the Pharoah. And because of this, Joseph's family, during the time of famine, were given land in Goshen by Pharoah. This same Pharoah and the Egyptians held both Joseph and his father, Jacob in esteem. See Gen. chapter 50. So, how sinister was this Pharoah's birthday celebration? In the case of Herod, that a bad thing happened to John the Baptist on Herod's birthday--all done at Herodias' instigation. Do you think it wouldn't have happened other than at a birthday celebration?

Now, how would you view it if nothing bad happened on those birthdays? Would you be at liberty to celebrate them then? Is the birthday celebration evil or what happened at the celebration? And what if I give a birthday party and unlike Pharoah and Herod order no one to be executed? How have I done something unscriptural?

house

But if you look up the origination of B'days it is linked to Paganistic customs, shouldn't that to be a sign not to celebrate them? Bible references do not put them a favorable light. The origin of B"days lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congrats and gifts and celebrating and the lighting of the candles in ancient times were meant to protect the celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the year and down to the fourth century christianity rejected the celebration of B'days as a pagan custom. It has never been a biblical practice

house

also, just curious, were you ever a JW, or studied?

ithinkisee

But if you look up the origination of B'days it is linked to Paganistic customs, shouldn't that to be a sign not to celebrate them? Bible references do not put them a favorable light. The origin of B"days lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congrats and gifts and celebrating and the lighting of the candles in ancient times were meant to protect the celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the year and down to the fourth century christianity rejected the celebration of B'days as a pagan custom. It has never been a biblical practice

Just because it wasn't a biblical practice does not disqualify it from something that can be practiced. Wedding rings and wedding anniversaries were not biblical practices. -ithinkisee

house

Marriage is discussed favorably upon, requirements concerning it are given: Heb. 13:4: Let marriage be honorable, and the marriage bed be without defilement....Mal2:15,16 for he is hating divorcing...and there are a lot more, but nothing to support the celebration of B'days

ithinkisee

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Awake 6/8/2002

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-ithinkisee

ithinkisee

Marriage is discussed favorably upon, requirements concerning it are given

Ah ... but there was no support for instituting a pagan symbol like a wedding ring was there? Nor was there support for creature worship - a'la wedding anniversaries. With any other celebration you read about in the Society's literature this would be a classic example of a "pagan custom being introduced to a Christian practice". Plus, the bible isn't the only so-called "sacred" book to discuss marriage favorably - in fact - ALL OF THEM do.

Additionally, the day of one's birth is discussed favorably. Remember how the angels rejoiced for the birth of Christ? There was celebration and singing in the heavens.

Additionally, there is nothing to indicate that modest celebration of a Christain's birthday would warrant eternal destruction and God's disapproval.

Nothing. If you study the history of the Society in something other than the Proclaimer's book - you will soon learn that the clamp-down on holidays was nothing more than a way for Rutherford to gain control of the Bible Students after Russel was out of the picture. It is the same way beards are not allowed - although I suppose you have scripture for THAT too?

-ithinkisee

Kenneson

House,

There's nothing in the Bible that supports birthdays, but than again, there's nothing in the Bible against them either.

There are numerous things which were practiced as religious rites in pagan religions that have been adopted as Biblical practices. Circumcision comes from the Egyptians, but the Jews adopted it into their religious rites. Baptism comes from the practice of purificatory or lustral waters found among the Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Hindus and others. A closer resemblance to Christian baptism was the Jewish baptism (also practiced by the Essenes at Qumran). But that doesn't seem to prevent Jehovah's Witnesses from baptising or getting circumcised (if they wish). Embalming of bodies comes from the pagan Egyptian religion. Doesn't seem to prevent JW's from getting embalmed.

The New Testament is silent about the use of musical instruments in worship. That doesn't seem to prevent Jehovah's Witnesses from using them. Is it a Christian practice just because it was a Jewish practice? When did Christians begin to use musical instruments in their worship? Did not the pagans also use musical instruments in their religious as well as secular lives? Who had them first, pagans or Christians?

Why is it o.k. for JWs to pick and choose the pagan practices they employ in their lives, but it's wrong for others to celebrate birthdays because pagans celebrated them (not that it even had anything to do with pagan religious practices as some of the examples I gave above. Birthday celebrations were secular, not religious in nature)?

P.S. Why appeal to the early Christians whom you say did not observe birthdays until the 4th century? The early Christians believed that Jesus is God. Why don't JWs likewise?

mrsjones5

Let me tell you what not celebrating my birthday did for me, how it made me feel as to whether my parents really cared about me:

!. I felt unimportant

2. because there was hardly any recognition of the day I was born, I felt I really didnt matter to my family, which led to low self-esteem.

3. had feelings that no one really loved me, to this day it is very hard for me to feel that anyone does love me. which is sad since I have a very loving husband and 4 kids who are all over me everyday.

4. began to question whether I should have been born at all.

Now I'm not saying that the dreath of birthday parties did this to me mentally, what I am saying is not having anyone recognize the joy of you coming into this world leads to a world of hurt and also hampers one in developing a good sense of self worth.

In my opinion of course,

Josie ~ loves a good and silly birthday party "Bring on the cake!"

So is there a new stance on B-days or what? Someone please explain........

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