by evergreen 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Heathen:
I hope you meant 1Tim.2:14, and that that wasn't a Freudian slip
You may have heard at the WTBTS meeting that satans master plan is to mislead people from the pure worship to God .
That's exactly where I heard it.
But in hindsight I wonder if it wasn't a theory that used scripture to underpin it, rather than something plainly stated.
Evergreen:
Several years, though I don't want to say, as there are some folks on this site still trying to guess my age, and I'm a tease that way
I had literally no time for myself. Every evening was preparing for the next day's meeting.
Friday evening was my only evening off, at the end of a long week. I would either attempt to relax, go out "shepherding", else put in extra prep for a Public Talk or Assembly item.
At one point we were down to two Elders. I would alternate giving a talk and the next week taking the Watchtower. We had a group each at that time, too.
Eventually we got up to five Elders, even after one moved away.
Believe it or not, one of the few things I really enjoyed was taking the School. Helping folks develop their speaking ability was quite a rush, since they responded well. Even the poor lad who I kept on "Use of Outline" for six months, enjoyed it
The defining moment for me, regarding the WTS, was reading John 20:28.
Shortly after that I found Freeminds and this place, and about four months later I Disassociated from the platform.
Hi LT
Flash:
"The Beast" of Revelation, that destroys the Harlot, is a different beast to those in Daniel.
Yes, once again I have to agree with the WTS on their take that Beast = Government is a rule, so regardless of where they're found the meaning applies.
How is it that the kings give the beast their power (chp17),
I know your gonna hate hearing this...I think the WTS has got it right that the League of Nations and the United Nations (member states) are the subjects here along with there willing nation accomplaces around the world. My guess would be that the Security Counsel passes a resolution and the Member States Accept it and non-member states honor it.
bewail the one the beast devours (chp18),
IMO, Not all the nations will be in complete agreement with the desision to destroy religion.
and finally fight alongside the beast (chp19) if it represents all "the world's governments"?
I'm speculating here, my guess these would be that the nations who are not members of the UN.
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Evergreen:Several years, though I don't want to say, as there are some folks on this site still trying to guess my age, and I'm a tease that way
From reading a recent post of yours, I have to guess your in your early 40's?
The defining moment for me, regarding the WTS, was reading John 20:28.
Shortly after that I found Freeminds and this place, and about four months later I Disassociated from the platform.
Now that was BOLD. I bet they were all shocked!
Littletoe- you actually got up onto the platform and disassociated yourself ! That must have been something .You were obviously absolutely convinced in your own heart and mind to do that.
I always felt that elders did not have a life .Even the average JW is tied to all the meetings ,field service and what not.But when i look at the Elders i just used to think ,how do they find the time to spend quality time with their families!
I never once had the inclination to be one .The very thought of being an elder just put me off. I always felt that they have no life to themselves.
John 20:28 changed everything for you. For me it seems to be a gradual process .Reading crisis of conscience , 607bce etc.The more i read about their past etc the more i am convinced that God cannot be using this organisation.
One of these days i will leave ,but i will probably just fade away rather than take the step you took.( my mother ,my wife , my sister in law are all zealots and id rather gradually bring them round to my views in time) .
In saying that i admire the stand you took and at least everybody knows that you no longer believed in the WTS any more.
Thanks for answering my questions.
Flash:
And the image of the WIld beast, and the prophet and the frogs (Rev.16:13, 14)?
What about the birds of Rev.19:17?
And in view of Rev.20:10, is the Devil actually symbolic of something, too?
IMHO it has nothing to do with modern day and everything to do with the period in which it was written.
Evergreen:
One of these days i will leave ,but i will probably just fade away rather than take the step you took.
Good for you!
Have you read "The Art of Fading" by Expatbrit?
I had a quick glance for it and couldn't find it. Maybe someone will oblige (it's long overdue adding to my favourites list).
LT --- You are right I meant 1st timothy . Not feeling 100% these days , doubt it was a freudian slip .
Flash --- I kinda agree but I think it is the seven headed beast that attacks the harlot and goes off into destruction but the lamb beast is the one that continues to project the image of the first beast , such as the US Britian alliance believing that their cause is the only just cause and can ignore UN resolutions while forcing all countries in the world to comply with their own . The lamb beast is still active during the time of the end and is destroyed with a swift pitch into the lake of fire . I still believe that armageddon is a spiritual war that involves political powers that attack with laws the freedom of speech of those that represent the holy ones of Israel because they refuse the mark of the beast . Something like that ...........
Littletoe-
Have you read "The Art of Fading" by Expatbrit?
I will certainly lookup the above and see if i can take some ideas from it.
cheers
Heathen
Flash --- I kinda agree but I think it is the seven headed beast that attacks the harlot and goes off into destruction but the lamb beast is the one that continues to project the image of the first beast ...
Your right. I should have made my self clearer. When I talk about the Wild Beast I am thinking of the seven headed one not the Lamb Beast.
The lamb beast is still active during the time of the end and is destroyed with a swift pitch into the lake of fire . I still believe that armageddon is a spiritual war that involves political powers that attack with laws the freedom of speech of those that represent the holy ones of Israel because they refuse the mark of the beast . Something like that ...........
Yes, are you sure you were never a JW? Sounds right to me! I do believe it will ultimately lead to religions destruction.
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LT
Flash: And the image of the WIld beast, and the prophet and the frogs (Rev.16:13, 14)?The Wild Beast is the UN. The prophet and the frogs? I don't know.
What about the birds of Rev.19:17?
The birds I believe are literal. There will be an aboundance of corpses after Armageddon.
And in view of Rev.20:10, is the Devil actually symbolic of something, too?The Devil is literal, the Wild Beast and the False Prophet are symbolic as is the Lake of Fire. Good point though, v10 contains both literal and symbolic information.
IMHO it has nothing to do with modern day and everything to do with the period in which it was writtenWe definately don't agree here. The last word is yours.
If God exists and is more powerful and wonderful than us and we are vulnerable, weak and dying; why present a ritual of belief to rescue us? That ritual of belief requires something from us; the dying. It is a bootstrapping process. A person who cannot swim can be shown a life preserver and have it tossed at them; but, unless they can swim over to it and grab ahold they will drown.
Most Christians act like everybody automatically sees Jesus as the Life Preserver and should just grab on. But, that just isn't so. We only see Jesus the way he has been presented to us. It might be a good way, a bad way or a repugnantly confusing way.
If God exists and is a Father, he certainly acts in a way no human father acts unless that human father was cold, impudent and heartless.
I find Faith pointless. After all, it is only "faith" if we cannot prove what we believe. If we COULD prove it; it would be "knowledge" or "data" and would not require faith. Since we cannot prove any of the things we "believe" we are guessing we must be right and banking our very lives on the conjecture. That is gambling. Gambler's risk and lose as a matter of course.
What is religion? Religion is a way of demonstrating truth by using make-believe. We guess at the truth and we wrap it in a storybook tale and then babble on about it like it was today's newspaper headlines.
There is no TRUE Christian faith. Period! If there were it would be so obvious to everybody because its origin would be perfectly correct logically, emotionally, morally, ethically and there would be no failure involved in the practice of it. To demonstrate that all Christian faith is bogus just look at the failure rate for prayer. Relgion, per se, is mythos presented as fact. It is ritual and folk wisdom, prejudice, stone age science, illogic and nonsense sugar coated with psycho-babble about "love" and "truth" and everlasting this and that.
Millions upon millions of honest hearted people cry out to God through the ages with fervent heart rending pleas for his guidance. They end up under six feet of dirt after years of time wasted on mumbles to the sky. Religion and the search for ultimate god-truth is a waste of time and effort. It is a red herring we don't grow out of as a species.
Religion and the search for true faith stalls us on a blind alley journey. All the great and wonderful strides made for humanity have come from ordinary people using their minds and hard work to better their life. Most of the human suffering have come from people completely devout in their utter conviction that they were right and the person they were killing was wrong and deserving of punishment.
Jehovah's Witnesses live gleefully for the day billions of people; men, women, children and sucklings are struck down in a bloody carnage of reprisal from their tribal god Jehovah. How lovely! What a beautiful core around which they waste their indolent lives in mind-numbing repetitions of creaky funk passing for wisdom.
Don't waste any more time in this pursuit. Get on with your life. Make something wonderful out of it by using YOUR OWN MIND. Don't get bogged down searching for a treasure map in the dumpster of history. Look at the "bible" for what it is: tens of thousands of scraps of garbage dug out of caves that has rotted and been pieced together by guesswork and the endless toil of obsessive-compulsive neurotics hell-bent on reassembling the ravings of lunatics from dark ages hence.
Have a new life and a happy journey.
