WHAT IF WE DIDN'T POISON CHILDREN'S MINDS WITH FANTASY? (page 19)

sf

Ha! Not so fast there Terry. I had 'it', yet decided I should read through the entire thread to see if anyone else 'got it'. I captured Simons "got it" here:

It would be a lie if you were trying to tell people it was TRUE
As it is, it's just a story. The same way things like santa or whatever should be portrayed.
When you start telling your kids that it's real and trying to blackmail or bribe them into thinking it's real then I think that is just dumb.

Exactly. Fantasy is one thing. Feeding the fantasy as truth, is simply a lie.

Then yes, FINALLY, here is where 'it' was seen with bright lights shining down:

itsallgoodnow said:Every myth has something to teach. IMO the point of the Santa claus myth is getting children's minds prepared for later religious indoctrination. Santa Claus is watching everybody, rewarding the good and punishing the bad, kinda like God, you know?
Telling kids about santa is not damaging or hurtful to them. Yes, but that's just not the point that was being made, IMO. Since it's the easier thing to argue, everyone just jumped all over it.

sKally

xenawarrior

Every myth has something to teach. IMO the point of the Santa claus myth is getting children's minds prepared for later religious indoctrination. Santa Claus is watching everybody, rewarding the good and punishing the bad, kinda like God, you know?

As someone who has never been a JW and grew up with Christmas and the belief in Santa until it went away I can say this is bullshit. The point of the Santa Claus myth is getting children's minds prepared for Santa Claus-nothing more, nothing less. It isn't some vast brainwashing conspiracy- it's just magical stuff that is fun for kids and for adults too !! Try as you might, you cannot turn it into something it's not.

Terry- I also "got" it. I just plain didn't agree with you about it and didn't care for your delivery of it or your insults towards parents who believed differently than you do about it. And I still believe you owe some folks in this discussion an apology for the things you said to them.

You come up with a hypothesis and then decide that you alone (or anyone who is intelligent enough in your mind to "get it") hold the true answer to it.

Oh, and if you don't care for that-please see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/78551/1.ashx

XW

teejay

FINALLY!! Somebody got the point of my thread!

So the point of your thread was that teaching kids about Santa Claus and Christmas was softening them up for a later religious indoctrination!!???

Hmmm. I guess I missed the point of your thread afterall!!

Princess

As someone who has never been a JW and grew up with Christmas and the belief in Santa until it went away I can say this is bullshit. The point of the Santa Claus myth is getting children's minds prepared for Santa Claus-nothing more, nothing less. It isn't some vast brainwashing conspiracy- it's just magical stuff that is fun for kids and for adults too !! Try as you might, you cannot turn it into something it's not.

Thank you XW. Your never-been-a-dub-ness speaks volumes.

Terry

teejay says:FINALLY!! Somebody got the point of my thread!So the point of your thread was that teaching kids about Santa Claus and Christmas was softening them up for a later religious indoctrination!!???

Hmmm. I guess I missed the point of your thread afterall!!

Go to the beginning of the thread where I opened the discussion and read the very first paragraph and the last sentence of that paragraph.

It reads:

Every baby born seems to have a giant helping of fairy stories, talking animals, outrageous exaggerations parading as "fact" and an endless stream of cartoons, science fiction and make-believe. The laws of nature and physics are violated every few seconds in film and tv! Is it surprising that children are not only ignorant of HOW THINGS REALLY WORK-but, they don't have patience and an appetite for fact when they get to the schoolroom. This certainly affects how they will react when they meet a religious salesman out to land a convert!

This certainly affects how they will react when they meet a religious salesman out to land a convert!

That last sentence is the point of my raising the topic on the JWD

seeitallclearlynow

FINALLY!! Somebody got the point of my thread!

Now Terry, I enjoy your prolific topics and I appreciate very much your welcome contributions to this forum!

Don't you agree, however, that the responsibility falls upon the "speaker" or author to communicate his meaning or his point to his listeners/readers? It's not the responsibility of our audience to understand us, is it?

teejay

I dunno.

Maybe I was raised around the wrong set of kids but few of the ones *I* grew up around were taught (or believed) that Mother Goose, Goldilocks, Lil' Red Riding Hood, Mother Hubbard, the Little Engine that could, etc, were *really* real.

Then, when we got to class... you know... like... at school, when we began to learn about Europe and Africa and the equator and the North Pole, and the Great Wall of China... well, we understood we were learning facts then, not fairy tales. Somehow, we were able to differentiate between the two.

Does believing in Santa make a child susceptible to believing in god? Maybe, but personally, I doubt it.

Terry

seeitallclearlynow says: Don't you agree, however, that the responsibility falls upon the "speaker" or author to communicate his meaning or his point to his listeners/readers? It's not the responsibility of our audience to understand us, is it?

Yes, I agree. Here are the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of my opening of the thread where (I thought) I brought home the purpose of the discussion.

I wrote in that first opening post:

"People don't seem to mind starting out with the premise that has already smuggled God into the picture! After all, how many children get to begin life without being exposed to every kind of fantastic story? We pour fiction into a child's mind and they develop the sweet taste of it. Is it any wonder the concept of God is so readily grasped and held deep inside?

When a Jehovah's Witness comes peddling a "better" fantasy that avoids Hell and provides a Paradise Solution to all life's problems---well, who wouldn't buy such a tale?"

Princess

Every baby born seems to have a giant helping of fairy stories, talking animals, outrageous exaggerations parading as "fact" and an endless stream of cartoons, science fiction and make-believe.

I don't agree that they are parading as fact. We call them "fairy tales" and science fiction. They are equally bombarded with the realities of daily life. Come on, what parent goes around pretending the pets can talk and some children really fly to never never land?

The laws of nature and physics are violated every few seconds in film and tv! Is it surprising that children are not only ignorant of HOW THINGS REALLY WORK-but, they don't have patience and an appetite for fact when they get to the schoolroom.

What are you basing that on? Children are only ignorant of HOW THINGS WORK if we don't teach them. My eight year old son immerses himself in fantasy every chance he gets but he also has a genius IQ, goes to a school for the gifted and has been constantly seeking to learn new things since the day he was born.

This certainly affects how they will react when they meet a religious salesman out to land a convert!

No, our life experience thus far affects how we react when we meet a religious salesman. The fact that we were read fairy tales and had visits from Santa just means we were allowed more fantasy and have different experiences than those who did not. Any religious salesperson who tries to convert children is asking for a heap of hurt. This is something that happens when we reach adulthood.

That last sentence is the point of my raising the topic on the JWD

Yet you presented it as a fact and not something open to discussion.

Brummie

I enjoyed being a 6 year old who spent hours looking for the little people who lived in old thrown away glass bottles.

Brummie

WHAT IF WE DIDN'T POISON CHILDREN'S MINDS WITH FANTASY?

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