by Terry 213 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mulan

    Thanks Xena, a good reminder for all of us.

    I had a friend years ago who typed in all caps for her emails. They were so hard to read and I never could understand why. It just made my eyes so tired to wade through her emails.

  • boa

    Heh heh....well i'll drop in later rather than never on this one....

    I appreciate your ideas and don't find your tone offensive at all Terry. Why? Perhaps because they appeal to the cold hard realistic view I have of life on this planet. Yes, bears are cute and will take a sandwich from your hand but they may just as easily rip your arms off and bury your sorry carcass to rot a bit for a snack later.

    My children are not being raised with belief in Santa. They are now 3 and the other is just about 2. The oldest would never believe me telling him fantasies about xmas (read: lies) and would likely later be pissed off if he did believe them only to find out his idol had lied to him. Perhaps he is a freak of nature but this kid picks apart everything you tell him and he questions quite skeptically until he is convinced. After the intense effort he would go through to eventually 'believe' in Santa....how could I live with myself knowing I had 'convinced' him of absolute BS!

    I will though, encourage imagination, creativity, appreciation for art, interest in the things we don't know yet or understand fully (ie science fiction). To me all of these can be done without lying or 'fantasizing' by 'beliefs' either as children or adults that truly IMO are crutches. Oh I understand people need their crutches and no doubt i've got a few still tucked away ready to surprise me when I least expect it, but I try to get rid of them when I can because they are not real IMO and I don't want them. I feel more joy, personally, in having my own personal view of reality no matter how harsh or cruel it may seem.

    I hate lying especially on important issues of life. Trust has been broken by the father figures of my life (dad and step-dad) and by the cherished childhood religion of my first 30+ yrs. To speak or teach any false ideas about Jolly ol' St Nick to my children would grate on my brain and concience. There will be no Tooth Fairy, nor encouragement to believe in a god that cannot be seen, nor observed, nor proven, but only truly believed when you have that most indescribable of things, 'faith'. Oh, if they choose to belive in god and join a religion or follow some religious belief system on their own, that is fine...i'm just saying I won't encourage it or teach it to them.


  • Princess
    The oldest would never believe me telling him fantasies about xmas (read: lies)

    So fantasies are lies? Is LOTR a fantasy or a big lie? Fiction = Fantasy or Fiction = Lies?

    Obviously I totally disagree. I don't think it's wrong to not go along with Santa or the Tooth Fairy, but I do think it's wrong to call others who do "liars". It's a game people.

    Angharad: My kids don't have to believe in Santa to get Christmas. There will be a ton of presents under the tree regardless. If they want one from Santa then they will have to go along with it because...it's a game.

  • Angharad

    I agree

    Fiction is fiction / stories - i would not describe it lies.

    Princess - My comment was not aimed at you, just a general comment after reading the thread, also I was thinking of one of the mothers at the school my kids go to who insists that her kids believe ! . No offense intended sorry, I should have made it clearer.

  • meggidon555

    as a kid I beleived star trek was real this was back when I was 3

    until my father who never told me it was real told me it was not so I trusted him

    and this is the old cheesy star trek not the next generation

    but if he would of told me it was real i would've believed

    why would he lie to me he loved me right

    he did that's why he told me again and again it's not real son

    you lie to your kids you pay later in life with lack of trust when you need it

    on the other hand story telling is needed to spur imagination a long as you tell them it's fake not real

  • Xena

    I did a little research on how some people feel about being "lied" to as children...

    Sorry. I still believe in Santa.
    Not in the conventional elves/north pole/down the chimney way... but there is something magical this time of year that I just can't explain. Something that just comes over all people, of all religions... even if it's only for one night.

    I still believe in Santa. Not necessarily in the actual man, but in the idea.
    To me, this holiday is not just about whether you believe in Christianity, and the birth of Jesus, or whether you believe in a jolly man toting toys to little girls and boys. It's not about giving gifts, or getting them. It has nothing to do with making wish lists, and cleaning the house before relatives arrive. To me this holiday is about family and friendship, and loving and caring. It's about believing in the goodness in humans, and being joyful. It's about being a kid at heart again, when seeing twinkle-ing Christmas lights made you giggle, and you wanted to spend time with family. It's about thinking back to a time when you did believe in Santa, and all things magical. It's about thinking back to that time when you didn't have to worry about bills, and wars, because you were too innocent to know that they exist. To me, it's all about going back to that time, and believing in the "spirit" of Christmas.

    I still believe in Santa! My daughter does too. If we don't we don't get presents. Of course, I realize at Santa's age he needs "helpers" ;)

    I was 6...And I remember someone telling me that I shouldn't be sad because there was a Santa in everyone who did things for others on Christmas. :) But I got to pretend for another 3 or 4 years for my little sister...and now I get to pretend for my cousins..7 and 8 and they both still believe :)

    Pretending is the best part...it's like being a little kid again.

    I think I was about eight years old when I figured out that Santa didn't actually bring the presents under the tree. I remember opening up the biggest present and it was a Barbie townhouse, and I was so excited to have it. I played with all morning, and later, when the women in the family were preparing the holiday meal, I caught a glimpse of wrapping paper, tucked in the corner of the dining room... it was the same kind that had wrapped my presents earlier that day, and I knew that Santa hadn't brought anything. I can't recall any other feelings. No anger, no disappointment. Strange behavior for a kid, I suppose, but my childhood wasn't exactly perfect so other emotions tend to overwhelm such things.

    As an adult, I very much want to believe in Santa. To me, he represents all that's good about Christmas. The religious elements and commercialism actually make Christmas frustrating for me, but Santa makes it special. Santa makes it worth the effort to decorate a tree, find the perfect presents for my small family, cook a delicious meal. And even though my two year old doesn't find Santa all that fascinating right now, I hold on tight to the potential years of childlike innocence... and for a moment, I believe Santa's real again.

    I still believe in Santa. I don't think anyone should stop believing...my Dad still says there is a Santa...maybe not a real person with reindeer, but his spirit is what makes Christmas have its magic.
    I don't ever remember NOT believing in Santa. Santa is not just a fat man in a red suit delivering Christmas presents to all the good little girls and boys...Santa is the spirit of the holiday. Even more so for those of us who have problems believing in a god...
    I love the illusion of Santa, and I've done all I can do to perpetuate that illusion for my children. I figure there's time enough to take credit for the cool gifts they get once they're old enough to realize that the coolest thing about it was the special spirit in which they were given.


    Millions of children believe with no detrimental effects.

  • Pole
    Below are the online basics you need to minimally become familiar with in order to be taken seriously in your online communications.
    Do not type in all caps. Typing in all caps is considered yelling or screaming online. Those who type in all caps are perceived as lazy and not being considerate of those who will have to read their e-mail.

    Wow, Xena, That's scary..... I didn't know people are so serious about it.... Interesting.


    Ok, folks, did that sound lazy, intimidating, inconsiderate and not worth to be taken seriously?

    Ok, ok I see the point. I'd better SHUT UP now.

    Errrm, what about capital smileys?

    Pole (feel like hijacking a thread class)

  • Xena

    It's all about perception Pole...but then isn't most of life?

    Guess how I perceive you now...go ahead, bet you can

  • Simon
    So fantasies are lies? Is LOTR a fantasy or a big lie? Fiction = Fantasy or Fiction = Lies?

    It would be a lie if you were trying to tell people it was TRUE

    As it is, it's just a story. The same way things like santa or whatever should be portrayed.

    When you start telling your kids that it's real and trying to blackmail or bribe them into thinking it's real then I think that is just dumb.

  • Pole


    I fear to imagine your perceptions of me. That'd be way too scary for me I'm probably much worse than the Old Johnny from the Revelation Climax book in my avatar.

    I only thought it interesting that some rules against (unintended) actions which may be perceived to be intimidating (e.g. USING CAPS) may be more intimidating than the actions they condemn.

    I respect your perceptions though.


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