Dating a JW when you are not

by jwgirlfriend 55 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  XQsThaiPoes

  We have had a relationship for almost a year now. This man didn?t even kiss me for two months we were dating. It was all hugs. He is a true gentleman (and this was a wonderful change from the norm). After reading your posts, I realize that also may be due to how he was raised as a JW.

  These are the kind of people that get married at 18 after dating someone for 6 months. Some die virgins. You know how far unlimited hugs and kisses go?

  In the JW religion there is a male shortage. Most the young women want wedding rings and imediately. You kiss a JW girl she is going to start telling people she is your fiance and once that happens if you dump her the elders pull you into their chambers and ride you until you crack. Maybe if he was 18 or 19 I could believe you but he just seems like a disillusioned JW. Think of it the org is like almost 70% women many single mothers and virgins. If he is not picky he can pretty munch get much better than he could outside of JWs. I believe he is with you because you are not a jw. I mean I am wondering if you were a real zealous JW woman or part of some strict sect if he would have even choose you.

  Also remember once you get married a bunch of jw women are going to lavish their affections on him for no real reason. Hoping to get in good so when there is a divorce he can catch them on the rebound. I am not saying break up because I say so, but this guy has problems.
• 

  Leolaia

  jwgirlfriend.....I am another person who was raised as a Witness by one parent (mother) who converted to the Witnesses, and other who was "worldly". Here are some jottings from my own experience:
  

  • I could not celebrate birthdays, Christmas, Valentine's Day, Mother's Day, and so on. I felt guilty for even holding firecrackers in my hands on the Fourth of July (as another kid went to the mailbox to get the mail), as it is sinful to have anything to do with the holiday. I had to excuse myself in elementary school whenever the teacher would have a little party for a student's birthday, we watched a holiday-themed video, or we had a holiday-themed assembly. Although I was always told that "We can give gifts any time of year," in practice this meant that maybe once every several years would we have a birthday-esque party. Now, because my dad was not a Witness, I did get to go to his family's house for Christmas and Thanksgiving dinner. But it felt somehow wrong to accept the few things my relatives might give me on Christmas. Maybe if I waited until several days after Christmas to open the presents, it wouldn't feel as sinful. Eventually, though, I let my guard down and started to enjoy these things (part of teenager rebelliousness, I guess). The worst part of this, however, is that I never learned the meaning and skill of gift-giving as a child because I never celebrated Chistmas or birthdays. I rarely had to think of what someone might want as a present (except for Anniversaries, which were not considered wrong), or learned how to wrap gifts and tie ribbons, or learned how to remember when everyone has their birthdays. I still have a hard time remembering birthdays. There is also the depression of not receiving presents when everyone else does and feeling like such a loser for having to skip all the fun things all the other kids get to do.
  • A JW kid also cannot recite the pledge of allegience or sing the anthem or any other patriotic songs. Instead, I had to just stand there defiant in front of the other kids. For that reason, a JW kid can get teased as being a commie, unpatriotic, America-hater, and so forth. The JW kid however is also indoctrinated into believing that the government is the tool of Satan and would some day attack religion, and especially, persecute God's people. I was taught that by going to JW meetings and going door to door I was making myself a citizen of God's kingdom, which would destroy the governments of the earth and protect me when the time came for the U.N. or the U.S. government to persecute us in the "Great Tribulation". The elders loved to tell stories of how JWs were persecuted by Nazi's during World War II, and we all knew that Satan was going to try to attack us worse than the Nazis back then. That's scary stuff.

  • But not as scary as Armageddon itself! Imagine growing up and thinking that I'll either be dead before I reach high school (because God is going to kill me during Armageddon for lying about doing my homework, or what not) or that high school won't even exist anymore by the time I'm a teenager. I heard whispers around the congregation in 1981 that the end was going to come in 1984 (which was 70 years from 1914), and so I fully believed that the world was going to end in the first few months of my freshman year in high school. For a JW, the end is always several years out. Maybe it's not so strongly believed today than during the Cold War, but we were always being told during the service meeting, during the Watchtower study, and so forth that it was "just around the corner," "shortly to come to pass," etc. Because of the imminence of Armageddon, I was strongly pressured against going to college. Fortunately, because I lost my faith during high school, I did make college plans against the elders' wishes. Anyway, my children's books that I read at the time had wonderful pictures like this of my future that I spent many hours poring over and pondering the destruction of 4 billion people around the world:

  Here is the picture from the current book that JWs give to children:

  • This means that I had to deal with emotions about knowing that my unbelieving father will die in Armageddon, as well as all the rest of my family and friends. I so desperately wanted him to become a Jehovah's Witness so he wouldn't die! I also thought about all the poor animals that would also die when Jesus comes to kill eveyone with fire and earthquakes and floods etc. I even wished that my dad would die, quickly that is, so he could be resurrected and join us in the New System. Because if he happens to be alive when Armageddon is unleashed, there would be no hope for him. But this fear of Armageddon also motivated me to be good and follow the rules, so I won't die. I hated having to go door to door, but I was told that this is the responsibility of every Christian, and we would be bloodguilty if we didn't go out to preach and innocent people died in Armageddon that could've been saved if only we had gone out that Saturday instead of watching cartoons. Again, as I grew older, I took this less and less seriously, but it is terrible thing for a young child to ponder. Preaching was a life-saving work. But how did I know my own life was saved? If I had been good for a while before Armageddon happens, I guess I would maybe be safe -- but what if I told a white lie, gave in to the pressure to sing "Happy Birthday," or did something else wrong right before the End comes? In a sense, I hoped for the Great Tribulation so I could prove my loyalty and honest-heartedness to God, but feared "giving in" to the pressure and losing hope of the Paradise Earth.
  • Kids are also under pressure to be baptised, at least beginning when I was 10 or so. You needed to be baptized to really be a JW -- it's required of all "mature Christians," so in my congregation I knew several kids get baptized when they were 12 or so. These were the same kids that were disfellowshipped for "immorality" when they turned 14 and 15, and were ostracized from their friends and peers in the congregation and treated basically like dirt. Baptism is actually something of a legally-binding contract that once you get in, it's very hard to get out of. I am so lucky that I never made the decision to be baptized. Had I been, I probably would've been disfellowshipped. But without getting baptized, you run the risk of getting knocked off at Armageddon.
  • There were so many mean people in the congregation. My mom never spanked me before becoming a Witness, but learned it from the sisters who themselves were more inclined to whip their kids. I hated it when my mom left me in their care in the afternoons after school; they were so mean and obviously hated kids. I had nightmares about one of them -- she scared me.
  • I so much hated having to go to five meetings a week and two circuit assemblies and one district convention a year. I didn't understand most of what they talked about in the meetings, and it was hard to sit still. I could hear all the other kids being sent to the bathroom for their spanking because they could not sit still. Two hours of boredom on Thursday nights, and it often meant that I didn't have a chance to finish my homework on Thursdays (I had to start getting ready at 6pm). Also, two hours of boredom on Sundays, but at least the Sunday meetings were marginally more interesting than the mind-numbing Thursday ones. This is the average week for a JW kid: (1) Mondays: Wonderful day! No meetings or anything. (2) Tuesdays: Gotta go to the book study tonight, which is an hour but takes at least another hour to get ready and socialize after the meeting. (3) Wednesdays: Another beautiful day! No meetings! (4) Thursdays: The worst day. Three hours of meetings and getting ready and going home. (5) Fridays: Another good day. (6) Saturday: The whole morning spent going door to door. Can't wait for it to end. Sometimes it might end early at 11am, yippee! But gotta wake up early at 7:30am to get ready. (7) Sunday: Most of the morning spent at the meeting and getting ready. So, in an ordinary week, that is a total of 10 hours spent in theocratic interests. Oh wait, I forgot the weekly Bible study my mom would have with me. Make that 11 hours. Now, when the district convention rolls along, I gotta spent all of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday sitting in a convention hall hearing talk after boring talk.
  • The last thing I wanted to mention was the intellectual straitjacket I had to put my mind in. Now, this doesn't just apply to the JWs but to many other "fundamentalist" faiths. I was told I couldn't believe this or believe that. I had to put aside claims in my school textbooks about dinosaurs living millions of years before man (when really, they died out during the Flood), I was told not to believe in Ice Ages, or read "outside literature" about the Bible and religion. I also had my own private disagreements about doctrine. I could not accept their teaching on the resurrection (I questioned it even when I was 7 years old at the book study -- I couldn't understand how the "copy" is the same as the original), as well as the teaching that resurrection of faithful ones began in 1918. But I could not mention my doubts to anyone except my closest friend; otherwise I could be misunderstood as teaching something different from the truth.

  Edited to re-size images to fit ~ Scully
• 

  jwgirlfriend

  leolaia

  You provided me with the type of information I am truly seeking.You also provided me with solid literature I can use when talking with my boyfriend. Thank you. You have truly helped me.

  On the other hand, XQTP you are now being quite offensive to me. To continue to insist that this man would not want me for any other reasons than one- providing him with sex and two- that I am not a JW is extremely insulting. I came on here to understand what I was getting myself into and more importantly understand the type of life I may be exposing my future children to. I am not a weak minded, easy woman. I wouldn't be wasting my time with such concern if I had the slightest thought this was a purely sexual and thrill seeking relationship for him. Trust me, I have put him through a lot over his faith and other "typical" relationship issues. There are many non JW women who would be happy to provide him with sex and thrills. He an exceptionally good looking man.Yet he chooses to be with me, out of love. Everyone has been very helpful and kind. However XQTP, I am offended that you can't seem to get past your opinion that I am just a cheap thrill for him. Thank you for taking your time to try and help me. I am sure deep down, you mean well.
• 

  Jez

  Remember that they will always hear preached to them that if they (the believer) act properly and set a good example they may 'win over' their unbelieving mate. You will always be referred to at the meetings in a negative light bec you poor thing, you are not 'one of them.' And he will get sympathy because he is married to a worldly person. You will never ever ever ever be as good as them, and therefore him because when push comes to shove, HE will live through armageddon and YOU will die. You will be surrounded by this negativity and 'hope' that you will eventually see the light and start to study and convert for your entire life with a JW as a mate.

  Is love really worth it? Not for me. Love is multilayered, what are the layers made up of? JW and Worldly in my experience and opinion is like oil and water, they don't mix and if it does, it is because someone is working really hard and swallowing alot of self pride, respect and continually compromising what they truly value and believe to hold on.

  Up to you and best wishes....Jez
• 

  Scully

  XQsThaiPoes:

  More than once on this thread you have been asked to stop making rude remarks about jwgirlfriend and/or her boyfriend's relationship.

  Please keep your offensive remarks to yourself. The lady is not interested in your opinion of her and her boyfriend's private sexual relationship. She came to the forum seeking information about the JW position on holidays, not the JW position on pre-marital sex.

  Kindly refer to the posting guidelines:

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  Love, Scully
• 

  jwbot

  Ignore XQ's. I am not sure why he is talking like that. :(
• 

  jwgirlfriend

  Thank you! You two are the greatest!
• 

  bisous

  You may not be a cheap sexual thrill for him but, unfortunately, you are being used. This man is lying to the overseers of his cult about his relations and relationship with you, if he weren't he would no longer be a member in good standing.

  You need to wake up and smell the coffee on this one, there is but one potential outcome and it is worse than bad.
• 

  myauntfanny

  jwgirlfriend

  As someone who was raised in this religion, I can confirm ever single thing Leolia said. It doesn't make a happy childhood.

  I will have to learn quickly, how to approach the topic without getting angry or always trying to prove that I am right.

  I have a short temper too. When you have a short temper there are always triggers, as I know too well. And...do you want to spend your whole life with someone who is guaranteed to trigger your anger without any potential resolution of the conflict possible? It's a religion that enforces black-white thinking at every turn. It never goes away or takes a back seat. You're in or you're out. He sounds like he wants to be both, which in my view is very understandable. It's a difficult religion to stay in and still meet your basic emotional needs. But it's a difficult religion to leave because it exercises many mind control tactics, and because of the shunning policy.

  The best thing that can happen is that he repudiates it entirely. Then the two of you have to deal with a lifetime of difficulties with his JW family, because, as you know by now, they shun members who have "fallen away from the truth". Everybody on here has stories of weddings they weren't invited to, close relatives who didn't come to their weddings, childhood friends who won't speak to them in the street. I know a woman who was not allowed to attend her father's funeral. This woman's mother told the entire congregation for years that her daughter was dead (she wasn't, she was just disfellowshipped). They aren't all so intense about it, but the pressure is there. And that's the best scenario.

  It probably sounds like I'm saying you should just run, as some on here have suggested. But what I think is that perhaps it would be wise to ask him to clarify his own attitude towards the religion before you go any further. Ultimatums never work, but a time-out till things are clearer could give him some motivation to actually think about what he's doing.
• 

  Scully

  Maybe your boyfriend needs a reality check... It won't be easy to do this, but, here goes...

  He says he is trying to be a "better person" (meaning: more JW-like) when he ignores your birthday. I would suggest that you tell him something along the lines of "Well, since you're trying so hard to be a better person by not celebrating birthdays or holidays, I think we should stop having sex until we get married, because your church doesn't allow pre-marital sex. I'm only thinking of what's best for you, darling, and trying to help you be the person you want to be."

  It puts his hypocrisy front-and-centre and you'll find out what his real motives are in a BIG hurry.

  Love, Scully