Is God able to help everybody all the time?

by Gopher 81 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • SixofNine

    Terry, your post above is one of the I've ever read on this forum. That chain of logic could save exiting JW's a ton of grief, if they'll only allow themselves to follow it. Unfortunately, those presuppositions, those "sinkholes" feel like the very foundation of our existance. We see people cling to those fraudulant foundations like a frightened, hungry baby will cling to it's mother.

    I've spent probably more time and negative energy than it's worth being angry at religion and the bible, and while those things certainly deserve contempt, given their harmful "sinkhole" histories, what I've noticed more recently is that humans have an amazing propensity to form (or at least glom onto) wild, unsupported presupositions about god all on their own - even once they've let go of the bible or their former religion's basic, unsupported concept of god.

  • LittleToe

    I agree. Terry's post is abso-bl**dy-lutely great...

  • LittleToe


    My browser tends to hop about a bit, when loading pages (I'm on diapup) and so I missed your post (even with the big bold letters). Anyway, that's the only excuse I've got for missing your post.

    I've never been called "sir" in my life. Here, in Britain, it's pretty much reserved for superiors (of which I would lay no claim to be your superior in any way), and even that is usually only in the Forces.

    I'm dreadfully sorry if I demeaned you in any way

  • JamesThomas

    The Professor was right on, but failed to bring it back to the most important, foundational, and generally unquestioned assumption upon which everything else is built.


  • Gopher
    Is God able to help everybody all the time?

    This generated a lot of interesting discussion today!

    I know that the question presupposes the existence of a creator. I didn't mean to assume that God is some sort of big Santa Claus in the sky, whose main reason for existence is to hand out favors to humans who may or may not appreciate such favors.

    But again -- assuming the existence of a creator (which is the way I started the thread), he/she/it put everything into motion and therefore one could reasonably say bears some responsibility for the world and its state of affairs.

    My primary question was -- is this supposed Creator ABLE to help people? One of the main reasons people turn away from belief in God's existence is all the suffering, wrongdoing and corruption in humanity today, and that there seems to be no end in sight (some religion's promises of panacea notwithstanding).

    All I was thinking was that we shouldn't be mad at the Creator because he/she/it really is NOT able to be everywhere for everyone all the time.

    The posters who implied that we ought to examine ourselves and act in our own best interests, to the extent we are able, nailed it right on the head (IMHO).

    Thanks for all the interesting replies!

  • Rabbit


    Wow. As I was reading thru the last part of your felt like a wind going thru my brain...blowing away dead leaves and trash that's been hiding my ground -- my foundation.

    We do assume a lot don't we...? Our world, in our mind is purdy small. We only know what we know thru contact and education and experience.

    All the rest, like faith is what WE would want to believe about things. For instance, I know I want to believe in a Supreme Creator, but, I don't know what he wants from us -- I can only assume benevolence, because we are here at all...I want to believe he is 'similar' in personality. I know, I know...all assumption.

    However, I like what Craig said, too:

    Which begs the question: Does God need, or want, to help anybody? What if it's all as simple as "Here's your life, live it, and see what happens next"?

    What it boils down to with me is this: I am simply glad to have had the opportunity to BE here. No matter the pain, agony...whatever bad things that's happened in my life (and everyone else's) I've had some great times...I've loved and been loved, I've 'helped' create 3 lives, I've been happy...these things are not assumptions...they are as real as it gets.

    Terry...again thank you for relating that mind blowing conversation, I'll be thinking about that one for a very long time. (I have a small, above the shoulders of course...)

    Rabbit...of the Never Surrender class.

  • JamesThomas

    "all the suffering, wrongdoing and corruption in humanity today, and that there seems to be no end in sight"

    All this exists on the tiny point of an unquestioned acceptance.


  • kes152

    Greetings to you all.

    To Gumby:

    The Spirit says to you, "Not all the people in the earth who are suffering do not want my help. There are many who do want my help and those who want my help, get my help. There are also many people in the earth who say they want my help but truly in their hearts.. do not want my help. Everyone asking receives and to everyone knocking the door is opened to them. When one knocks and the door is opened.. it is up to them if they wish to walk through it. I force no one to come to me for help. If one's wish for my help, I offer it to them. It is up to them if they want to take my help.. and many of them do. However, many of them do not. There are also many people who call out with their mouths that they "want help from God" however, when such help is presented to them, or they are told what they must do to get out of such situation, many people go back to their old ways and stop asking for help and do not want the help any longer. You, Gumby, see what your eyes show you and hear what your ears tell you, but I see what is in their HEART and what is in their deepest of emotions. You do not know what is 'really' going on in their hearts, and it is because of this ignorance that you do not 'see' why some receive and others do not. However, if you "wish" to see, your eyes MAY be opened.. if you are truly 'asking.' "

    To New Light:

    The Spirit did not say that all the suffering that people are subject to are because of their own actions. He was not saying it was their fault. What he WAS saying is that those who have been subjected to such suffering, such persecution, and have 'asked' for a "way out" have all been provided a way out. All who have 'asked' have been provided a 'way' out, but not all have taken that way out. Many have chosen to neglect the way out and remain in their suffering. When anyone in their heart is calling out for him or even if their heart is simply calling out for salvation, he hears it. If their intent is to be released from their suffering and they are so much as 'wanting' a way out, the Christ answers them. However, many after having the "door opened to them" do not want to walk through it for a number of possible reasons and continue to remain in bondage calling out for salvation. Not all do this, but many do this.

    To LittleToe:

    The reason our Father answers some prayers and others he does not, as the Spirit has told me is because, "God reads the HEART and searches the DEEPEST of intentions." He sees what we do not see and he knows who is really 'asking' and who is really not asking, or perhaps asking for a wrong purpose. He says, "Everything I do is for the benefit of the sheep." So what prayers he does answer and what prayers he does not hear, or answers at the right time.. all he does for the benefit of the sheep. He knows what is best for them and it is because of his immense love and deep concern FOR them that he does and says the things he does. He helps even where we do not know we need such help.

    To Ozzie:

    We all have our wish list in our hearts.. all of us. Go sees our "wish list" even if we do not present it to him.. he sees it. He knows the things we are needing and the things we are asking, even BEFORE we ask him. The Spirit says to give you Matthew 6:8. The Spirit did not tell me nor am I bearing witness that we should tell God our wishes and expect him to answer. What the Spirit IS saying and to this my spirit bears witness is that God sees what we are wishing for and ANYONE who is wishing for HIM and is calling for him or is so much as 'wanting' him whether it be 'truth' or deliverance, or anything else.. he DOES come and he DOES open the door to us so that we "see." At this point, it is up to us if we want to walk through the door. Not all walk through the door. Many call for him and after receiving him, they don't want the help anymore for a number of possible reasons. All of these things occur in their hearts and it is because of our motives in asking, that many of us "walk through the door" and others do not.

    Peace to you all,


  • ozziepost


    I'm intrigued, why is "the Spirit" talking these things to Aaron. Mate, are you claiming to be a mediator or something?

    I thought we had Jesus in our hearts already. Is that not what you believe?


  • JT

    Sorry if this sound derogatory........but this is about the most pathetic, rediculous, self centered, explanation I have ever heard in my life.

    I suppose all the people in the world who are suffering.......just don't want the lords help. These suffering people all like their selfish lifestyles. All the starving it that way. Abused children who live for years under horrible trauma.......must not like god quite enough and don't wish to change enough for god to help them.


    keep in mind that for the typical believer he or she must come up with a reason that does not put their "god" in a bad light- so they will offer up things like you commented on by the other poster

    IT MUST BE THEIR FAULT they are suffering- when you consider what the ramimifcations of such a view is - it is sad

    women being rape, according to such a person are being raped cause they deserve it

    little kids being abused by adults welll according to the believer it can't be gods fault so it must be the child

    we see the same basic mind set when talking to a jw about thier god the WT- they will come up with all kinds of excuse for the wt and yes even blaming the rank and file jw for thier situations

    this is what is required when one has a belief system that must explain away the suffering and pain as being due to something the victim did-

    to blame thier god would mean that their beleif system is faulty AND WE CANNOT DO THAT- SMILE

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