by RR 139 Replies latest jw friends
Leo,
I think the WT today teaches that the 1000 starts only after all God's enimies are dead or abysed. They hold that Jesus is giving the annoited that are ressurected some work to do while they wait,, for God to give the word,,, to slaughter all his enimies. And after that the 1000 start. Only things is since heaven is not bound by time or time don't exist there,, it gets a little confussing to me.
I hope that helped explain the WT veiw it pretty,, nonsensical if you ask me.
RR ol' bud. You are an inigma to me.....but a heck of a nice guy
Believing in god using Russell as "an agent" for our end times baffles the shit out of me coming from an ex-dub.
If god really used him because his teachings were pertinate to mankinds true understandings of gods word, don't you think he would see to it EVERYBODY has a copy of what we should believe from him. You and your associates are a drop in the bucket to who knows about this stuff written by him. Do you really think god will take the time to "expound" to others, on the things he wrote and taught? I would think as a bible believer you would stop at christ......not some modern day prophet as a teaching to follow. Minds such as yours intrigue me. Can we still be buddies?
Gumby
Does any one no the answer to this question?
Among the early Bible Students was C T Russell the only one who was called pastor? or where others allowed to take up the title?
I'd be interested in the answer.
I mean if he was the only one to be called paster,,the next question is who made up the rule,,is it found in his writtings that tend to glorify himself on occassion when he is pontificating on Scripture.
Here's the WTS explanation, frankie (not that I agree with it). No other person was ever called "pastor" in the WTS; no one.
w50 7/15 p. 215 Organized Testimony to the New World ***16
Property was purchased at 17 Hicks street, Brooklyn, New York. This came to be known as the Brooklyn Tabernacle. On its second floor was a large auditorium seating 800, and here public addresses by Brother Russell and other Society representatives were to be delivered and other meetings held. The street floor was fitted up for office purposes, and the basement floor for the literature stock and the shipping department. Into this the Society began moving in January of 1909, and on Sunday, January 31, there was an opening celebration, almost 41 years to a day before a similar event this year which we are about to describe.
17
The total number attending that Tabernacle opening was about 350 from New York, Brooklyn, Jersey City, Newark, and other cities as far away as Boston. The following Sunday all the friends present from New York, Brooklyn and Jersey City voted unanimously to be parts of a congregation whose home would be at Brooklyn Tabernacle, and they unanimously elected Brother C. T. Russell to be "pastor" of the same. And so the designation "Pastor Russell", by which he became known world-wide, was not because of any self-assumed title. Ephesians 4:11, 12 declared that Christ Jesus would give some of his consecrated followers to be "pastors"; and in view of the pastoral work Brother Russell was doing under the Chief Shepherd Christ Jesus the congregations throughout the earth voted him to be their acknowledged pastor.
***
yb75 pp. 36-37 United States of America (Part One) ***At the age of twenty-five, in 1877, Russell began selling out his business interests and went into full-time preaching activity. He then was traveling from city to city delivering Bible discourses at public gatherings, on the streets and in Protestant churches. Because of this work, he became known as "Pastor" Russell. He determined to invest his fortune in the promulgation of the work, devote his life to the cause, prohibit collections at all meetings and depend on unsolicited contributions to continue the work after his own money was exhausted.
***
w96 1/15 p. 15 Jehovah?s Sheep Need Tender Care ***One of these men was Charles T. Russell, the Watch Tower Society?s first president. He was called Pastor Russell because of his loving and compassionate activities in shepherding the flock under the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ. Today, Christian elders are appointed by the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses, and care is exercised not to use such terms as "pastor," "elder," or "teacher" as titles. (Matthew 23:8-12) Yet, present-day elders do a pastoral, or shepherding, work for the benefit of the sheep of Jehovah?s pasturage.
Hmmm, where's RR? Too many questions and not many answers from him.
... says the man who only asks questions and never answers !
I haven't seen anything enlightening from you on this thread Min. You know what they say about people in glass houses! (and no, it's not that they shouldn't take baths)
Min,
Simon makes a fair point, and I'd be interested in your response.
As per your own posts on this board, you've been a JW for a long long time, from a multi-generational JW heritage.
Certainly you must have access to pertinent information regarding Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz, and others, which could shed some hard-tacks light on what they did, and why they did it? If so, why not post it?
Come to think of it, I've never seen even one post from you that includes a quotation even from a WTS CD (which, I presume, you must have in possession). If I'm wrong, please accept my apology.
As for the topic of this thread: I still hold my neutral opinion about Russell...based on my actual readings and interpretations of his writings and behavior. Others may disagree (including a couple of close friends); but before I can agree to such a categorical conclusion, I'd need to see unequivocal (or, at least, strongly circumstantial) proof.
Our concerns should not be what a person believes, but whether that belief harms its adherents in any way
But.....what if what a person believes in, brings him/her harm? What if their belief causes them to live in a way they might have lived different had they not believed the way they do? Suppose a christian altered their lifestyle because of a bible date they believed in was short at hand and they did like the dubs did.........more preaching, no higher education, etc?
I feel a person at least has the right to know the "other side of the coin" as far as his/her beliefs go and that we SHOULD be concerned about it if it will hamper their life in some manner.
Are people always "better off" once they find their belief system isn't what they thought it was? Not always. Some loose their values and drive. Others live a good life, thrive, and feel free. Depends on the person.
Gumby
Gumb*stard:
There ya go again, not reading the whole thread!
RR commented that many BS's have a College education.
I would agree with HS, too. If someone wants to believe in Venusians, but it isn't harming them or others, and they don't insist that everyone believe them, then where is the harm in that?
It may obsess them, and affect their outlook on life, but probably no more than an obsessive chess grandmaster...
Min:
RR has a fair point. You've not raised a single objection, other than to poo-poo a vague collection of chronologies.
Frankie raised an interesting example. Was it something like that, which you had in mind?
