9/11(Film) - Freedom burning alright

by catchthis 102 Replies latest social entertainment

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  Yerusalyim

  I understand Simon, as long as you AGREE with the comment, it's ok, but if it CHALLENGES your belief, it's extremist. Given how liberal this board is I can imagine how "extreme" my views must seem.

  What exactly is it that makes me an extremist Simon, is it that I believe that fighting terrorism is the only way to address it? Or is it because I'm a Bush Supporter? Or a Michael Moore Unbeliever? Is it because I think the war in Iraq and Afghanistan was right? What of my comments on this board label me an extremist, by what measure do you call yourself a conservative?

  I notice you didn't answer my question about Moore's quote above.

  I forsee a comment about not having to explain yourself to anyone reference my posting limits.
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  exjdub

  So, ya'll really believe the whole reason we took down the Taliban was to build a pipeline?

  Yeru...you are at it again! Every time you get agitated at what people say about Bush, or positive comments about MM, you engage in inaccurate hyperbole. I don't believe I read anywhere that anyone thinks we took down the Taliban to build a pipeline, but somehow in your simplistic, limited field of vision that is what you have concluded. Trying to reason with you is akin to bashing my head into a brick wall, so I will not attempt to do so, but suffice it to say that you are way off...and...you just don't get it. All I can say is that I hope you are in the minority in this country. We need open minds to deal with a world economy. Closed minds like yours are what make people around the world hate us (and I'm not talking about the middle east).

  exjdub
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  FlyingHighNow

  Yeru,

  You should see the movie. Michael doesn't place full blame or culpability on Bush or the republicans. He takes democrats to task in this movie. I am neither democrat nor republican. I went in to see it with an open mind. I don't blindly trust everything I see in the media. There is a lot of truth in this Film. It's not all fiction and soundbites. You can't know that if you don't see the film yourself.

  Borrow it from someone else when it comes out on DVD. I saw someone offered it to you. Open your eyes and mind some. The USA is not the saintly army of God who is sent to save the world. Human beings are all imperfect and very capable of greed and irrational fear, all human beings. Are not all of us here in the USA human beings?

  Flyin'
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  Crazy151drinker

  The Bin Ladin family flyout is nothing new. I think it was 60 minutes that brought it up quite a while back. Im surprised that few here knew about it.

  Regarding Moores April comment that people who blow up their fellow citizens with car bombs are Freedom Fighters.......... I guess I should be a Freedom Fighter and shoot Moore.

  Simon,

  Please give Yeru his posts back. Thank you.
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  ApagaLaLuz

  Well I for one very much enjoyed the movie. Of course most movies are designed to help you escape from reality, it's a refreshing break to see a movie that brings reality (or one person's version of it) to you. I originally went to see it at the Santa Monica Promenad. Every show at every theatre for that day was sold out. Of course one should suspect that from a "new age, liberal, hippie" town. Outside their were lines of people to get in and twice I witnessed literal physical fights between supports of the movie and protesters of it. I finally made a showing at 11:10pm in my city. The place was completly packed. In the opening scenes the audience booed all of the major political players in this mess.

  I did find parts of it a bit nick picky. Like when he kept goin on and on about the Patroit act and homeland security. The State Trooper and and the irony of lighters but not breast milk being aloud on planes, was just a bit over the top. I enjoyed many of the quotes that he included, sometimes you forget things that were said months before. It was great to be reminded of contradictions. Some of the pictures of the casualties of war were too much for me to see. I didnt get a chance to turn my head in time during some of the pictures. I am very sensitive to that sort of thing. Certain visuals get stuck in my head and I dont like them there.

  I cried when the mother lost her soldier son. I cried when she read his letter, and I cried whe she visited DC. There is a maternal emotion that I think only the women in the audience could appreciate. I liked how Moore did not take his crusade personally against the soldiers and in stead made them out to be heros. Moore got a standing ovation from the audience when he tried to get members of Congress to inlist their sons. All in all I think he made it clear that his crusade was very much aimed at Bush, his administration and business friends who stand to gain financially from the war.
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  Ray Skyhorse

  I don't think F911 should win an Oscar for best documentary or best propaganda film of 2004.

  I think one problem many people have with MM is that they don't know how to classify him or his work. In my mind, F911 is not a documentary because it is significantly interlaced with humor. I don't think there is a genre for "stand-up comedy" documentary. Documentaries try to inform you and persuade you with facts. F911 uses facts and humor to entertain and inform the audience.

  MM is somewhat like a modern day Mark Twain or Will Rogers in his use of wit and humor, but most people don't think of him as a humorist, because his topics are so serious and political. (I wonder what MT or WR would be saying about current events...)

  Is MM a propagandist? I don't think so. Modern day propagandists employ a wide ranging system using various media and approaches get a message across to the masses. Also, most people tend to associate propagandists with governments rather than with critics of the government.

  MM is no more of a propaganist than Gary Trudeau, and I don't hear many people calling Doonesbury propaganda, though there are some I'm sure. GT is a comic strip writer, just a MM is a film maker. Both have their slant, but neither is a "propagandist" as most people use the word.

  MM's work is quite satirical -- he wittily mixes footage of old Hollywood movies with modern day news to create his art (and its message). I don't think the public is used to seeing his brand of satire. I laughed my head off during the film when MM posed the question of what would have happened to Clinton if he had let the Saudis and bin Ladens leave in the days following 9/11...and then he shows a scene of a mob burning a witch.

  My girlfriend surprised me on Friday evening with tickets to F911. We went to go see it in Arcata, California, the bastion of progressive politics in the USA (even more so than San Francisco). I thought it was a thought-provoking movie and I encourage everyone to see it. While I don't agree with everything MM says (the scenes of Iraq prior to the American invasion were way too idyllic), I think the message of the film is accurate and persuasive.
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  gitasatsangha

  I believe in non-violence. That said, if the United States were taken over by a foreign power, I would hope that we would have the courage and guts to fight it out like the resistance in Iraq is doing. I don't think they are heroes, but they are doing what you are SUPPOSED to do when your country is attacked and occupied and under repression.
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  Xandria

  Okay, we went and saw the movie, yesterday. Frankly, this is not about MM! I can care less about what people think of MM. What I care about it what infact happened.

  This is about what the American Public was fed as fact, the fear "they" kept us in, (bouncing us from terror alert to terror alert), the greed, the power, the losses,etc. Finally you have to ask yourself what are we going to do about it.

  I cannot really say, he lied about anything. I remember the facts of what happened also. Focusing this on MM and his "lies". Is like that woman who was viewing the Iraq protestor's pictures, (she was protesting in front of the WH.) telling Lila that all these pictures of Iraqi dead were staged. When Lila, knew the truth that they were not staged and that she lost her own son, in battle.

  My husband and I, had long discussions over this. One person in particular,we spoke to saw this movie twice. The first time, he came out of it, he ran into a 80 some year old guy just sobbing his heart out. He fought in WWII and wonders what the hell he fought for~ because it certainly wasn't this. I have to agree with him. Because trust is an issue here, we were lied and we sent people into harms way based on mistruth.

  X.
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  ApagaLaLuz

  he ran into a 80 some year old guy just sobbing his heart out. He fought in WWII and wonders what the hell he fought for~ because it certainly wasn't this.

  Xandria, my uncle was a WWII veteran and my father is a veteran of both Korea and Vietnam, my brother-in-law also a Vietnam vet. My father has long been disgusted by the military. I think that's one of the reasons he was drawn to the witnesses. There are many heros who died to defend our freedom. There are many young men who fought and died so I wouldnt have to. That is made clear in Moore's movie. But I agree with you, our Freedom is absolutely NOT at stake with this war and THAT is what is also made clear. I just kept thinking to myself "Shame on Them".

  p.s. I remember when I went to see Forrest Gump with my dad in the theatre, during the scenes when Bubba gets shot, my dad left the theatre in tears. My own dad, a big strong, manly man, cried while watching it. My brother-in-law who drives a truck with an American flag on it and stickers that say "thank a vet" is disgusted by the waste of human lives for a handle full of people's personal vendettas.
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  Crazy151drinker

  I believe in non-violence. That said, if the United States were taken over by a foreign power, I would hope that we would have the courage and guts to fight it out like the resistance in Iraq is doing. I don't think they are heroes, but they are doing what you are SUPPOSED to do when your country is attacked and occupied and under repression.

  So when we freed France from Hitler you are suggesting the French should have attacked us?? I guess we should have left Hitler Alone. I guess we shouldnt have Occupied Germany or Japan