Not only have you declared yourself anointed by the the god of the universe, selected by the miraculous hand from above, but you have also decided to call yourself 'AMAZING'.....
i see a pattern....
ANOINTING - How JWs really know!
by Amazing 63 Replies latest jw friends
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DATA-DOG
Just to be clear, IF you belive that the Bible is God's word, then you must partake. Anointed is a mystical sounding word. I think the NWT translation might use that word pretty liberally. Christ is THE ANOINTED. Other are chosen or of the Elect. The WTBTS like to keep a mystique about " anointed " ones. Most people on this forum who feel they should partake according to scripture, absolutely DO NOT think they are above any other poster. There are several of you that I would love to kill a bottle of scotch with.
I don't know why everyone is jumping on AMAZING. He was just relating how they felt at a certain time. He then goes on to express his own doubts about God, and what God's doing with his time. THEN some wacko apologist acts like a big douche.
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snare&racket
I disagree data dog, anything that seperates humans is deeply harmful in my mind and anyone that sets themself out as different likewise,,whether it be class, wealth, cast, creed, hand picked selction by god, or race....
Every conversation I have had with such 'anointed' or 'born again' ends with 'well you have to experience it to,understand, ask jesus to help experience it' which does indicate a miraculous interaction between god and man unique to that individual. The 'but I did ask and did seek truth' is replied with such comments as 'with sincerity in your hesrt?'........It does seperate one human from another. Add to that, this person has been anointed by a god who promotes slavery, genocide, infanticide, racism, sexism, homophobia, war, rspe, kidnap, blood sacrifice and loyalty to the death, it is no small matter in public relations.
Maybe it is just my experience of the anointed and their delusions of grandeur, but any anointing or interaction with a god is by definition supernatural and miraculous. No small claim data dog.
Believe who and what you will, I tried that once and it didn't work out, i found s lot of people seeking self affirmation, power snd glory.
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DATA-DOG
Let me clarify that I don't personally know any who partake on this forum that want power and glory. I know of many who act that way in religious organizations. i have no use for organized religion myself. As for the supernatural, it is what is is. Once we understand something completely it is no longer supernatural.
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snare&racket
There is no supernatural that we have observed though buddy, otherwise it would be natural, so I have no idea what you mean, sorry.
There is much we don't yet understand, like gravity.... We can observe it and describe it but that is all.... Yet we don't call it supernatural Do we?
At some point we have to say 'that is not likely' or 'that is impossible.' At what point do we do that? Most will reason on what we know to be possible i.e.Natural and impossible i.e. Unnatural and use that as a starting point. so anything never observed before...such as a PERSONAL story of interacting with god and being selected for heaven. Without a mass of evidence...... It is just words.
I assume you don't believe the accounts of mohammed flying to heaven on a winged horse or the time he split the moon in half and joined them together again? Well maybe not but you may say that is unobservable... Ok, well I assume you don't believe the scientology e-meter can detect thetans, I assume you don't believe the indian boy who currently says he doesnt eat for months due to his spiritual abilities? I assume you don't believe that ex JW in australia in that commune who says he is Jesus and can peform miracles? ... Maybe you do......maybe you don't....
If you don't why not? Why believe the people on this forum and their stories of supernatural interactions?
You may argue it does no harm.....and that is where my post comes in, I reslly think it does. Do none of us remember out WT experience? Personal anecdotes and self appointments at god's right hand that people assure us they have experienced ......is nothing but words.Take them as truth once more if you wish, bit I feel compelled to ssy be careful...
Maybe you should AT LEAST meet them in person before sttesting the porbability of their motive, whether it be sttention, glory, power, acceptwnce, boredom, emotional distress etc.
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Listener
"THE HOLY SPIRIT GOVERNS YOUR THOUGHTS.THE SPIRIT STAYS WITH YOU.ALL YOU CAN THINK OF IS THE HEAVENLY HOPE.YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOT
YOUR OWN,THEY ARE IMPELLED BY GOD,YOU CAN'T GO CONTRARY TO IT,YOU'D BE GRIEVING THE SPIRIT WHICH LATER WOULD BECOME
UNFORGIVABLE.
YOU ARE LITERALLY GOVERNED BY HOLY SPIRIT CONCERNING THE HEAVENLY CALLING YOU FEEL IT.IT'S SO POWERFUL YOU CAN'T DENY IT.YOU
ARE FORCED TO THE HEAVENLY HOPE.YOU CAN SAY 100% JEHOVAH GRANTED THE CALLING.JEHOVAH DEALS WITH YOU IN A SOUND STATE."
According to you, this holy spirit that comes upon the JW anointed is very powerful, so much so that a person undeniably feels they are going to heaven. But when it comes to understanding the truth the holy spirit is unable to communciate in the same manner so that the anointed one has an undeniable certainty about God's word.
But thanks nobodyofconcern for bringing this thread to the attention of readers. The opening post was excellant and brings so much realism to this idea of being anointed.
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IAMNOBODYOFCONCERN
HI COFTY
SORRY I VE BEEN LATE IN RESPONDING TO YOU. I STAY IN SOUTH AFRICA I MADE MY DEDICATION IN 1994.
IM SORRY IF I SOUNDED LIKE I STARTED ON THE WRONG FOOT.
YOU ARE RIGHT I DONT KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY.
MAY I ASK YOU IF YOU HAVE THE TIME TO SEND ME SOME DATES OF THIS CHANGE AND MAYBE OTHERS
AS I LACK KNOWELEGE.
I HAVE NOTHING ON THERE FALSE FROPHECIES,I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT RUSSELLS OR RUTHERFORD.
I KNOW IT WOULD TAKE UP YOUR TIME BUT IF YOU WANT TO SHARE WITH ME I WOULD LIKE IT.
THANKING YOU
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DATA-DOG
Did something make you question a teaching? Perhaps you can start with that.
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IAMNOBODYOFCONCERN
HI DATA DOG
I HAVE KNOWELEGE THROUGH MY OWN EXPERIENCE,I KNOW WHAT I AM,SO ITS TELLING ME THE NUMBER ISNT CLOSED AND THE HEAVENLY CALLING MIGHT NOT BE OVER,WHICH IS ALSO TELLING ME THERES STILL TIME CAUSE IM 41 YEARS OF AGE.
DATADOG I CAME UPON THIS SIGHT BY ACCIDENT NOT BY CHOICE.I THOUGHT IT WAS JW 'S DISCUSSION SITE,AS I READ ON AND BY BEEN TOLD BY YOU ITS A SITE FOR THOUGHS THAT HAVE LEFT THE ORGANISATION I SENSE ALOT OF HATRED,PAIN AND LET DOWN.
I CRY INSIDE CAUSE WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND YET THERE'S AFFLICTION TO ONE ANOTHER.
I'VE BEEN HURT SO MANY TIMES BY PEOPLE EXPECTING PERFECTION,NO ONE WANTING TO BE A FRIEND,LIED TO,ILL TREATED WORSE THAN A DOG. HATED EVEN IN THE CONGREGATION.SLANDERED ABOUT .
THERE ARE THINGS I DONT UNDERSTAND EVEN WHAT THE WATCHTOWER PRINTS.MANY TIME I JUST WANTED TO QUIT.BEEN LOYAL AND HONEST IS GETTING ME NOWHERE.I 'M TIRED OF WORRYING BOUT THE NEXT DAY,OR WHERE MY NEXT PLATE OF FOOD WILL CUM FROM.I'M TIRED IF TRYING TO BE GOOD ENOUGH JUST TO HAVE A FRIEND AROUND.I'M TIRED OF LIVING LIFE ON THIS EARTH IS SO HARD.I SEE A DEAR FRIEND IN TROUBLE I CANT HELP,I HAVE NOTHING TO HELP WITH.
AT A TIME WE ALL SERVED JEHOVAH WITH WIGGER AND STRENGH...I SERVE NO ORGANISATION I SERVE JEHOVAH,AT A MOMENT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS I WASNT IN THE TRUTH,I HAD BEEN AFFENDED BY THE ORGANISATION.I HAD BEEN DISFELLOWSHIPPED,I WAS INNOCENT OF WHAT I WAS CHARGED WITH,EVEN TO THIS DAY IT HAUNTS ME,I'M NOT GUILTY.IT LEFT A BAD TASTE IN THE MOUTH,I WAS REINSTATED BUT I NEVER FELT THE SAME.THEN I LEFT I JUST COULDNT TAKE IT I WAS STILL IN PAIN "HOW COULD I JUST BE TURNED AGAINST AND THROWN OUT LIKE A DOG.THERE WERE NO WITNESSES I WAS JUST ILL TREATED.DURING 5 YEARS I NEVER RETURNED.
I WAS ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT MY HOPE BUT JEHOVAH KEPT ASSURING ME,I KEPT MY NOSE CLEAN,I READ THE BIBLE I STILL WITNESSED TO PEOPLE WHEN THE OPPERTUNITY ARISED.HOW CAN I KEEP GETTING ASSURANCE FROM JEHOVAH WHEN I'M NOT IN HIS ORGANISATION.I NEVER SPOKE BAD ABOUT THE ORGANISATION EVEN THOU I HAD LEFT,I NEVER TURNED AGAINST JEHOVAH BY GOING CONTRARY TO HIS LAWS I STILL WENT BY MYSELF AND PRAYED TO JEHOVAH,I STILL RELIED ON JEHOVAH.
I REALISED I DONT SERVE AN ORGANISATION EVEN WHEN IM PAINED BY THEM ITS WHERE I GET MY FOOD I TRY IGNORE MOST OF THE MISTAKES CAUSE JEHOVAH IS BACKING IT.SOME MISTAKES ARE BEEN ATTENDED TO OTHERS CAN ONLY BE DONE IN THE NEW SYSTEM.IF YOU READ ANY BIBLE THEY BOTH SPEAK ABOUT THE KINGDOM THATS COMING,JEHOVAHS QUALITIES,HIS LAWS,HIS SON JESUS,THE FLOOD,THE TEN PLAGUES.
SO WHAT IF A WORD WAS CHANGED OR THE BIBLE IS PRINTED BY DIFFERENT COMPANIES,YOU GET THE MESSAGE FROM BOTH.
YOU GET THE THEME,YOU KNOW HIS LAWS,YOU KNOW YOUR CHRISTIAN DUTIES,YOU KNOW YOU MUST WARN PEOPLE OF HIS JUDGEMENT,YOU KNOW YOU MUST LOVE HIM.
SO ANSWER ME THIS,WHY STOP OBEYING THE BIBLE,JEHOVAHS WORD,HIS GUIDLINES,YOUR BROTHERLY LOVE,THE WARNINGS,RETURNING INTO THE WORLD,DOING THE THINGS YOU SHOULD NOT BE,THINGS THAT JEHOVAH HATES,WHY IS THERE HATRED HERE.
WHO DO YOU SERVE:WATCHTOWER OR JEHOVAH.YOU ARE ANGRY AT THE WT BUT YOU TURN AWAY NOT FROM OUR FATHER.
I DONT JUDGE NO ONE.
YOU NEED TO KNOW,TO EVERYONE ON THIS SITE: ONLY JEHOVAH KNOWS YOU AND WHAT MAKES YOU TICK,IF YOU ARE NOT SURE,IF YOU LACK KNOWELEGE,IF YOUR PAIN RUNS DEEP SO AS FOR YOU NEVER TO RETURN,JEHOVAH WILL REPAIR IT IN TIME.HE IS THE ONLY ONE TO JUDGE YOU. BUT THIS AINT AN EXCUSE TO STOP APPLYING HIS LAWS,UNLESS YOU JUST DONT WANT SERVE JEHOVAH BY LISTENING TO HIM.
THE WATCHTOWER IS THE ONLY PLACE TO GET FOOD AT THE PROPER TIME, YOU NEED SPIRITUAL FOOD,YOU CANT BE ALONE LIKE THIS.
IF EVERYONE CHOOSES TO CONTINUE HATING THE WT THEN SO BE IT.BUT AT LEASE CONTINUE SERVING JEHOVAH LET HIM SEE YOUR EFFORT TO LOVING HIM.IF HE SEES YOUR HEART THAT YOU LOVE HIM EVEN THOUGH YOU AINT WITH THE WATCHTOWER WHY SHOULD HE BE UNFAITHFUL TO YOU.
REMEMBER FROM ABEL BEFORE THE WATCHTOWER WAS ESTABLISHED RIGHT THROUGH THE CENTURIES THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE LOVING JEHOVAH AND THEY WERENT PART OF THE WATCHTOWER SO WHATS YOUR EXCUSE.
ONLY YOU KNOW.KEEP YOUR CONSCIENCE CLEAN IN TIME JEHOVAH WILL SORT OUT EVERYONES DISPUTE.
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Terry
This is just me talking.
An opinion. A voice, nothing more than that.
I struggled for many years to try and care about "God." As a child I had a kind of symbiosis with the idea of god. (Little "g".)
My idea of god was more a feeling than information.
As I grew older, the more information I received, the less I felt.
I looked upon (here is a strange word that really fits, so I'm going to use it) the numinous in others as a kind of emotionalism and mental illness.
Sorry, but I did.
People who used the word "Jesus" almost always horrified me. Maybe it was the way they said it, "Jeezus."
How anybody could say they "loved" Jesus was beyond me. "Really? You love an invisible thing and it is a supernatural person?"
Why not say you loved Bigfoot? Why not sing passionate songs to the Yeti or Loch Ness monster?
I'm not trying to mock anybody or anything; I'm just disclosing my personal thoughts and feelings as I grew up.
The idea of wanting to go to heaven meant absolutely nothing. It seemed about as likely as a trip to Mars.
Besides, nobody could tell you anything about it that wasn't a cartoon thought. The streets are paved with gold? Well, gold is a soft metal and isn't a very good material for a roadway.
What do you do all day--play a harp and scream "holy holy holy"? Leave me out of that one.
Everybody wears pure white? How incredibly boring. You are telling me this standing around will go on for eternity? Forget about it.
The people writing these stories of heaven had a real poverty of imagination and vocabulary. Stop and think about it--all they really say is to not say anything. "Eye has not seen and ear has not heard." Ohhhhh, okaaaaay. Thanks for nothing!
The Jehovah's Witness introduction of life on Earth made more natural sense to me than heaven. However, it was merely a better fit
for what I was already accustomed to doing. Paradise was more of an extended vacation. Okay, that's fine with me.
But, at some point I'd have to say I grew out of fantasy and wishful-thinking to the point I no longer entertained it.
Maybe it is like sex fantasy when you are an adolescent--it is exciting and a raw stimulation...but, really just mental manipulation.
I don't know.
All I know is this, today these thoughts about heaven and paradise simply strike me as self-obsessed.
It is all about ME if I'm anointed or an "other sheep." Salvation is all about ME. Making it through Armageddon is all about ME.
Finally, I'm old enough to where I don't need to bathe in the waters of narcissim any longer.
I've learned how to volunteer my time and spend it on others. Nothing at all heroic, mind you! Just a little here and there like I NEVER DID as
a Jehovah's Witness.
Doing for others in the here and now makes sense because the needs terminally ill people have are immediate and desperate.
Lonley people, stroke victims, those with cancer who have no family to support them--these persons aren't helped in a real way by making
them promises of heaven or life in Paradise--no, not really. Let's be honest. We lie if we tell them things we only hope are real and true.
Obsessing over which vacation we are "ordained" to enjoy simply seems like a form of mental masturbation. It is meaningless self-manipulation of the mind rather than the body.
Why not keept THAT to ourselves like we would if we thought we were the reincarnation of Napoleon?
Well, the answer to that may be this: some people need the attention.