God does exist...

by czarofmischief 348 Replies latest jw friends

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    As for dating methods, K/AR especially, if we observe present processes, and make the assumption that they have been going on at the same rate since they started, we generally come to the conclusion that the Earth age as currently believed is questionable. Why? Some of the processes that have been studied that give younger ages for the Earth are continental erosion, sea floor sediments, salinity of the oceans, helium in the atmosphere, carbon 14 in the atmosphere, and decay of the Earth's magnetic field.

    The presumed ages for the Earth come primarily from the ages of rocks, which are dated by the presumed ages of the fossils in them. Radioactive measurements of rocks are based on assumptions that were chosen to make the radioactive measurements agree with the presumed ages of the fossils.

    There are so many erroneous arguments here I don't even know where to begin. Please read the link I provided on radiometric dating.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Something from nothing. The universe?s mass, whether you believe the big bang theory or not, had to come from somewhere. There are no plausible explanations for how this matter came into being as an atheist. That God created these things is the only plausible explanation.

    You argue that it is impossible for something to come from nothing. So the universe had to be created by God. Well what about God? Where did he come from? How can you so easily dismiss the requirement for something to be created when it comes to God himself?

    "God is not bound by our physical laws and exists outside of time so he didn't need to be created." Well, before the big bang physical laws were unknown, time didn't exist as it does now, etc. So whatever matter/energy existed before the big bang was also outside of our physical laws of space and time.

    In other words, I don't find that argument compelling at all any more. I did as a dub, but no more.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Talk about tearing a belief system to shreds!!

    I'm shocked that you can find a handful of quotes from scientists who do not believe in evolution. Wow!! And the games some play with statistics... Wysong is a genious!

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    drwtsn32,

    Thanks for being an example of what I have long stated, and so many atheists try unconvincingly to debate- Atheists place as much faith in science as Theists do in God. We all have to believe in something, I choose to believe that which makes much more sense- Theism.

    As for the comment on dating, the sentences you took out of context leave out the Mt. St Helens example. It proves the point of the paragraphs in question.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    the sentences you took out of context

    Huh? I am talking mostly about these items:

    Some of the processes that have been studied that give younger ages for the Earth are continental erosion, sea floor sediments, salinity of the oceans, helium in the atmosphere, carbon 14 in the atmosphere, and decay of the Earth's magnetic field.

    These are flawed arguments. Helium in the atmosphere, decay of the earth's magnetic field, etc ... they're flawed and do not indicate a young earth.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Atheists place as much faith in science as Theists do in God.

    Yes, you could probably say that. But science is testable and provable, God is not. I'm glad I'm on the side of science.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I will respond to that tomorrow Loves_Truth, I'm off home.

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    drwtsn32,

    "Science" is partially testable and provable. There is very much that is not "testable and provable" including evolution theory.

    Abaddon,

    I forgot about your "pretty trees" reference. Why, yes, of course, those "pretty trees" are quite enjoyable:

    http://www.geocities.com/star_kitten007/Pretty_trees.html

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    rem, would you consider this a static fossil record?

    trees, bacteria, many horses, many humans (present)
    -------------------------------------------
    trees, bacteria, more horses, more humans (dated 1 million years ago)
    -------------------------------------------
    trees, bacteria, few horses, few humans (dated 1 billion years ago)

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    From Abaddons link:

    1. There are many conceivable lines of evidence that could falsify evolution. For example:
      • a static fossil record;
      • true chimaeras; i.e. organisms which combined parts from several different and diverse lineages (such as mermaids and centaurs);
      • a mechanism that would prevent mutations from accumulating;
      • observations of organisms being created.

    • a static fossil record;

    request answer to above question before responding

    • true chimaeras; i.e. organisms which combined parts from several different and diverse lineages (such as mermaids and centaurs);

    An evolutionary theory could still be held if creatures such as these were found. It could be said that mermaids and centars both sharred a common ancestor which had a human torso, and that the mermaids tail, and the centars body were derived characteristics. Convergence could also be invoked to expalin the similarites between mermaids tails and fish etc. Convergence could also be invoked to explain genetic similarities, however even the finding of a true chimera that evolutionists believe was created would not falsify the evolution of all the other known animals, it would be "proof of their likely evolution." If the only proven product of creation (the Chimera) is the only being that cannot be fit into a nested hierarchy, then the other animals (which are in the hierarchy) are likely the products of evolution.

    • a mechanism that would prevent mutations from accumulating;

    If such a mechanism were found it would not falsify evolution. since "evolution is a fact; the mechanisms that drive evolution are theory." Thus such a mechanism would not falsify evolution, since according to evolutionists, evolution is not falsifiable by mechanism (though individual meachanisms may be).

    A mechanism that would prevent mutations from accumulating would not falsify evolution, but only evolutionary mechanisms that require the accumulation of mutations above a certain amount. "Evolution is a fact the mechanisms that drive evolution are theory." Evolution does not need a known mechanism to survive. Even if all known proposed mechanisms for evolution were shown to be unable to work evolution would still survive. Here is an example: It is a fact that the earth is round even if all proposed mechanisms for the formation of a round earth are shown not be true the fact of the round earth would still be true. The problem would not be with the round earth, but with our ability to conceive a mechanism. Evolution can survive even with no known mechanism.

    Even if all naturalistic means of evolutionary change were able to be proven unable to work evolution would still survive.

    • observations of organisms being created.

    This is a draconian test, and would be the equivalent of a creationist saying that observation of macro-evolution would falsify creation. Even if one did observe the creation of new organisms, an evolutionary origin of existing organisms could still be held to, just as if one saw macro-evolution of new organisms, one could still hold that existing organisms were created.

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