God does exist...

by czarofmischief 348 Replies latest jw friends

Phantom Stranger

I'm younger than you, Gumby!
drwtsn32

Dear God, please save me from your fanatical followers. Amen.
Golf

Czar, where are you? Your innocent thread is getting out of hand. Hopefully you can understand why I don't engage in these types of topics. I've spent many years in bars with a rough and tough crowd and what's happening to your thread is how fights and bad feelings develop.
Six of nine related a story about a mountain climber not believing in a God, well, I've done over forty years of high steel work, my job was assembling steel together. Without 'connectors' the steel doesn't get erected. I faced death every day for over forty years, I walk around on steel girders without a safety harness. Today its mandatory for ironworkers to have safety equipment. I could tell you some hair raising stories. As to the mountain climber, he must have ropes for his trade, without it he ain't climbing. I'm also a professional tree climber so I know about ropes. What's my point in all this? I still believe in a Creator. Now, who's to be believed that there is no God, the mountain climber who's life is on the line or me working over forty years on high rise buildings? Do I make an issue out of it? No, why should I? If I were to see the movie about the mountain climber, do you think I would change my mind about a Creator? No I wouldn't, I know what facing death is! It simple terms, it boils down to choices. Why is that so difficult for people to understand?
Both beliefs exist, so who's right? As I said and I'll say it again, I'm not obligated to explain to anyone why I believe in a Creator. One thing I do stress and that is, I thank my Creator every day.
Guest 77
Abaddon

Loves_Truth
Yes, God does exist. Some are just too arrogant or stupid to figure it out.
There, it's settled.

Yeah, but what's settled is something entirely different to what you think is settled. As for arrogant, you obviously fancy yourself as having the controlled logic of a Starship Captain, when you neither have particulary good control over yourself or particulary good logic skills, so...
There are no atheists in a foxhole- when you're on your deathbed or in dire straights, you'll call on God.
This is utter bollocks and a further sterling example of (the ironically named) Loves_Truth standards of veracity. Your opinion on this, Loves_Truth, is as wrong as some of your other opinions.
Atheists, help is only a website or two away:
Man oh man, you call that proof of god's existence? And you call other people arrogant and stupid? All it proves is that one can't prove that something doesn't exist doesn't exist, which no one is really disputing. You haven't proved god exists. You've never done so, and you never answered the questions here relating to the unfairness of exclusivity (i.e. what a bugger it is for a Hindu (e.g.) if Christians like you are right;
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67335/1053611/post.ashx#1053611
As a reminder, here are the questions you didn't answer
But what's the POINT in sending your son to die, or dying yourself, or whatever, and NOT doing so in a manner which assures a high level of message delivery? JUst saying 'oh, god will answer that' is evading the issue, as IF it was 'made-up', the same answer would be given to that question.
Again, not a real answer. Book of the MonthClub can contact us easy; why not god? Why not send Jesus now with CNN available to cover it so the entire world knows. Your just answering the inexplicable with a shrug and 'god knows'. Good enough for you maybe, but as it's similar to what the WTBS does, I am suspicisous and do not think it seems likely, nor could it seem likely without a presuppostion on yuor part.
Again, you're answers are the same as countless religionists over the centuries, and not just Christian ones...
Sorry Love_Truth, you're happy with your rationalisations to the above... I find them indistinguisable from OTHER people who say they are right. And we are meant to judge a tree by its fruits, are we not? How come it is not OBVIOUS you are right? It doesn't say 'the trees will bear similar fruits and you'll just have to hope you choose the right one'?
Love_Truth

Ah! Abaddon steps in to state that which is already evident:
He would dispute whether God exists with God himself. And should God prove to you personally that it is he, how much time would pass before you would require another miracle, eh?
Would you forget what He had done to answer your doubts?
What of the others He had not done the same for? Would it be enough if you wrote about it?
Never. For Atheists make a sport of doubting God. No evidence is undeniable other than God personally proving himself to you, eh?
Here's your sign, Abaddon: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/67989/1062001/post.ashx#1062001
When God is ready, he will undeniably reveal himself to all. Will that be judgement day? Perhaps. Or will it be a time He chooses to reveal Himself to each of us personally? Perhaps. Or in some other way or other time? Perhaps.
I am not here to convince you of something I already know. Why? Re-read what I wrote above- short of God's appearance or an undeniably divine miracle, you would apparently doubt God's existence.
Most beliefs stem from faith. Atheism is no different. We all individually put faith in something(s).
" Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for." -Hebrews 11:1
Choose wisely.
LittleToe

Sheesh, guys. I thought I asked for a "Time Out"???
LOL
Love_Truth:
Whilst I was sleeping, you've adequately reminded me why I got my pants in a bunch over people shortening yourUserID to LT / L_T. I really would hate for folks to start associating "LT" with a different reputation.
I've got "Label" rights on that one, ya know?
You've been here a month, and already you're stirring up animosity against the Christian community.
You may disappear (again), but will leave the broken detrius of the "Christian viewpoint" in your wake.
On the one hand you claim to be a Christian, but on the other you start a brawl.
As has oft been said "Lord, save me from your followers!".
Rem:
Maybe I'm wrong? Perhaps it's the theists who have a more positive view of life and that's why they are able to hand-wave the "problem of evil" issue? I've been wrong before. :)
I don't think that a worldview that includes "sin" and "evil" precludes one from having a positive outlook.
To be honest, my point is merely that generalisations are unhelpful.
I have no axe to grind here
Love_Truth

LittleToe,
Are you insinuating that being a human with individual characteristics different from yours excludes me from "the Christian club" as you have defined it?
Geez, do I need to remind you of the "Boanerges"? "sons of thunder, a surname given by our Lord to James and John (Mark 3:17) on account of their fervid and impetuous temper (Luke 9:54). "
I do not apologize for my differing viewpoints insofar as they are merely another facet of individually applied Christian principles, based on our unique God-given plus-es and minus-es.
When I disagree with you, I chalk that up to our individual human natures, not to you being "not Christian" because you don't practice my brand of Christianity.
I can assure you that both your and my understandings and explanations elicit both agreement and disagreement depending on the reader's individual understanding and experiences as another human.
Romans 3:23: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."
Cheers,
Love_Truth
gumby

When God is ready, he will undeniably reveal himself to all. Will that be judgement day? Perhaps. Or will it be a time He chooses to reveal Himself to each of us personally? Perhaps. Or in some other way or other time? Perhaps

So let me see if I got this all straight now.
God will absolutely, undeniably, without a doubt,......REVEAL himself someday......but you DO NOT KNOW when, or if it will be on a personal level, or in some OTHER way.
Questions:
1. Why do you know some information for absolute sure, and do not know about OTHER information?
2.. Where did you find this out, where can I see this information, and how is it this is undeniable?
3. Your name shows you want truth....correct?
Gumby
Love_Truth

Gumby,
One word answer:
FAITH
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." -Hebrews 11:1-3
Incidentally, "Why do you know some information for absolute sure, and do not know about OTHER information?" Is there anyone other than God Himself to whom this does not apply?
Cheers,
Love_Truth
patio34

Interesting discussion and valiant arguments, folks! Especially have I enjoyed Rem, Six, and Abaddon's posts.
I just want to clarify one thing that LovesT stated that I think is inaccurate:
Most beliefs stem from faith. Atheism is no different. We all individually put faith in something(s).
Atheism is equivalent to non-religious for me. There is no belief system. There is an absence of belief or faith. I
There's an inaccurate statement that "it takes as much faith to believe evolution as it does to believe the Bible!" An atheist, evolutionist, or non-religious person doesn't usually believe or have faith in evolution. This person simply thinks the best evidence supports it. That could change in the future. As I stated on another thread, there may be some other explanation than either evolution or creation to everything. Just because there's A and B now doesn't mean there couldn't be C, D, or E later. Evolution is NOT a belief or faith systerm. Even if evolution were proven incorrect, it doesn't prove creation as if that would be the only other explanation ever.
Literally, the word atheist means a--without; theist--being a believer in god. This is no faith, belying the above statement LovesT made. Non-religious means about the same: without religion or faith.
Now I think the rebuttal that could be made to this is: that I believe (have faith) that there is no god. This seems to be a specious play on words meant to twist the argument. The same way a person says all theories are equal. So, I won't be replying to this thread about that.
Cheers
Pat (a light-hearted and really, imho, a sweet non-religious person!)

God does exist...

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