Is it a Gun Issue or a Mental Illness Issue or Both?

by minimus 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper

    It's both issues, it's not all this , or not all that. It's not black and white, it's shades of gray with a lot of variables involved. Some of which involve the government, some of which involve mental health.

    In regards to the government we have the nice cushy wealthy congressmen to thank for being so closely in bed and aligned with the NRA as many of these congressmen received 3 to 4 million $$$ in donations from the NRA to get re-elected . Trump received over 20 million $$$ from the NRA. So let me ask you : Do you think this administration is going to do ANYTHING about gun regulation ? Not with the NRA in their back pocket. I truly believe that until one of these wealthy congressmen's own kids is killed by an AR- whatever the fuck they are- that these high powered assault weapons will continue on the market.

    Hey I believe in 1st amendment rights, but what deer hunter needs a high powered assault weapon that they use in the military to kill humans in order to get a deer for his or her meal ? These high powered assault guns used in these mass killings should not be sold to the public, period. There are many other types of guns that gun owners can use and attain.

    In regards to the mental health issue. Hell yes the FBI dropped the ball in this particular situation ; but so did the United States military when they failed to warn authorities about the freaky nutcase ex-military guys criminal record who shot up the church in Texas a few months ago killing over 30 people. There's plenty of blame to go around here- and it's not a pretty picture of how our own government is NOT doing enough to protect us as citizens of this country. How many more children and teenagers have to die before government officials wake the hell up ?

    More checks and balances should be put into effect regarding gun sales and background checks. So an increase in checking people's backgrounds and restricting high powered assault type weapons would help some. And restrict the fat cats in Washington from accepting blood money from the NRA which keeps preventing politicians from doing the ethical, moral thing- to re-vamp gun regulation laws.

    Remember back in the early 1970's when the Kent State killings shocked all of us ?

    WTF has happened since then ? Is this normal life now that our kids have to dodge fucking bullets just to get an education ? Not a world we want our young ones to experience. We didn't have this shit happening as much when we were kids.

    Here's a you tube of Kent State lest we forget :

  • Simon
    More checks and balances should be put into effect regarding gun sales and background checks. So an increase in checking people's backgrounds and restricting high powered assault type weapons would help some

    It wouldn't completely solve things. People's mental health and anger don't stay constant throughout their lifetime.

    There is no quick-fix that one piece of legislation will solve. It is a problem with American society and needs to be fixed over the next 2-3 decades. It won't be because you can't all agree on the bleeding obvious for the next 2-3 minutes.

  • scratchme1010
    Is it a Gun Issue or a Mental Illness Issue or Both?

    Not sure what you mean by gun issue. I interpret that as "gun access" issue. I think that the ease of access to weapons in USA may have contributed to that unfortunate event, but seems like mental health (I'm not talking about severe mental illness in this case) played a role. Learning a little about the background of that shooter, seems like he could have used some kind of support system. Unfortunately he found himself with no parents too early in life and completely alone growing into adulthood all by himself.

    Then today I learned that many people around him and online did the right things. There were numerous reports to the police and online security "authorities" (reporting things online seems like a joke) about his postings and his behavior. The FBI did not follow up.

    As always, just because they are several events that resulted in violent attacks like this one, doesn't mean that they are the result of the same issue. In this case several things went wrong, his past, his life, his mental health, the authorities not paying attention to multiple reports on his postings, activities and behavior, and seemingly easy access to weapons without a lot of questioning.

    As for the weapons, I'm not completely sure. If he wanted to cause such harm and didn't have any weapons, he may have burned the school or who knows what else could he have done if he's set to kill and cause harm to other people. The means in this case, I think are just a catalyzer. There are larger issues to look at in this one.

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill
    People's mental health and anger don't stay constant throughout their lifetime.

    That is why in this country, Firearms Licences are issued for a maximum of ten years, after which the licence holder has to once again go through the whole background check / vetting / safety testing process.

  • kairos

    the problem is definitely not law abiding citizens with legally obtained guns. It's the murderers. They do not follow the law.

    More school security with heavily armed soldiers fixes this in one day...

    An armed guard with a good aim is a great match against any intruder. Why not have 10 or more heavily armed and trained National Guard soldiers at each school? If the shootings continue, add more soldiers.

    Add in high level ( sporting event/music concert ) gate security.

    It's a money issue. Spend enough to secure the schools. Problem solved.

  • JeffT
    How do you guys feel about the fact the NRA lobbyists virtually buys off your politicians in contribution funds - with which they get elected.

    It's not just the NRA. Our politicians are all bought by somebody.

    Flipper: Those kids were shot by the National Guard, you know the people I'm not supposed to need a gun to protect myself from.

  • road to nowhere
    road to nowhere

    I am NRA. Before you demonize it you should look at what it actually does. It promotes safe gun use, training, even the background check was a NRA idea. They do support some politicians, but so do a lot of other lobbies. I have talked to some of the political activists and they want to get ALL guns away from ALL the people, leaving only the government with any power. The Kent State thing tells it; an armed government running rough shod over the rights of people who disagreed with the politicians.

    The US is not the only place where shootings take place, and if you look at per capita it is even down the list.

    I just saw a meme of two signs; one saying "gun free zone", the other "armed and trained personel on duty". Which place is going to be hit?

    Nobody is trying to arm all teachers, but if a few were allowed it would make a would be shooter have to think; metal detectors, police, and such would be nearly impossible to pull off. I know some government buildings have security, but doing that for all the schools is a far greater task.

  • hothabanero

    @Kairos, my proposal is to encourage teachers to have guns (w proper training).

  • jwundubbed
    We have had another shooting. Many are blaming Trump and the Republicans and the NRA.

    I think most people are too quick to place blame. They often start the blame game before all the facts are in. When has jumping to conclusions ever solved a problem?

    Is it because of guns that there are so many massacres or could it be that these killers are mental?

    I know a little something about mental illness. What I don't see in any of the articles is what mental illness this latest shooter is supposed to have. Based on what I have seen of his behaviors... I doubt he had a mental illness that was strong enough to make him go on a shooting spree. I don't think mental illness had anything to do with it. I also don't think that the number of guns in the US has anything to do with it. I think it has to do with people, primarily young white men, wanting notoriety. I think this would happen a lot less if the media would stop talking about the shooters. Don't name them if they are dead or in custody. Only name them if they are yet to be apprehended and still a danger to society. And once they are caught or dead... never say one word about them. If they are caught... talk about their sentence. And then never let their name or face see the lime light again.

    In other countries they ask why we have the problem that we do, while they don't have any mass violence like we do. There are other countries that have more guns per household than we do. There are other countries that have knife violence. No other country in the world has the mass violence that we do, perpetrated by minors, to the extent that we do. Instead of looking at gun control or mental illness (which are just distractions)... we should take a look at why the US is so different than the entire rest of the world in this area.

    Do you think guns should be removed from our society so that these atrocities never occur again?

    No. I don't think that would change anything. The people who do this will just find another way to create the most damage and they will get creative. I am all for gun control. But I don't think that means getting rid of guns. I don't think people would be as likely to committ gun crimes or other crimes if everyone around them owned, carried, and had the education to take them down as well. I am for giving people more rights to carry openly but with the requirement of stringent education. I am all for not allowing people who are mentally ill, people on probation, and people on restraining orders to have any access to legally obtained guns. I do think that it should be harder to buy a gun than just to walk into a store and put down your money.

    Do you think people who are mentally unstable should never get a gun?

    Yes. I think people who are mentally unstable should never ever have the right to own or use a gun. But I also think that we have to change how we see mental illness. A lot of people commit heinous crimes while being completely mentally stable. But people in general have so little understanding of what mental illness is and what it looks like and how it behaves that they name anyone who behaves in a way that they don't understand as mentally imbalanced. A mass shooting happens and people are quick to lay the blame at the mentally ill before they have any factual knowledge of a mental illness. We need to stop the stigma against mental illness because it limits our ability to recognize actual mental illness. We also need to amend the law to include 'Guilty by reason of insanity' verdicts which would mean that someone with a mental illness that can't be cured never walks free again. And we need the criminal justice system to recognize that a chemical imbalance in the brain cannot be 'rehabilitated'.

    by the way... The FBI is doing a heck of a job following leads on getting these nuts out of the way, huh?

    They are doing a great job of trying to convince us they aren't to blame. They 'ran checks but couldn't find the person behind the statements'. Bullshit. The FBI has the ability to do more than 'check things out'. They failed us in that. But the reality is that even if they did everything right, this still could have happened. This could have happened because legally the FBI is limited in what they can do with someone who makes statements like this. If they thought it was terror threat they could charge the person. A threat of mass shooting... there isn't much they can do. If the person does have a mental illness they can commit them to a hospital where they will stay for a minimum of 14 days in some cases. Once out, that person doesn't have anyone who makes sure they take their meds. That person is free to come and go as they please. It is actually worse for everyone if that person is mentally ill than if they are just a criminal... because criminals go to jail/prison but the mentally ill go to a hospital that focuses 'rescue, rehabilitation, and release'. This system works great for some mental illnesses but is completely inadequate for other mental illnesses. Some things just can't be cured or rehabilitated. And some offences are so great/vile/heinous that culpability shouldn't be removed under any circumstances... even mental illness.

    The FBI fell down on their part in all of this, but they also don't have a lot of legal options to begin with.

    Is it a Gun Issue or a Mental Illness Issue or Both?

    Those are not the only two possibilities. Your question implies there are no other answers. If you don't look for any other answers then you will never find any other answers.

  • freemindfade

    How about an FBI issue? they totally failed on this one, any system you have in place wont work if its not sued right

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