Do you still believe in God? (page 6)

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Nathan,

"Religion is a snare and a racket," as the man said.

You know, that's the first thing I've read of His that wasn't barking mad and that I could wholeheartedly agree with...

Thanks,

Ken

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heathen,

I absolutely believe in God. I also believe that all religions are cults.

I'm not sure about all religions being cults. I understood there were specific definitions of cults, e.g.:

· Only cults claim to be God?s exclusive spokesmen on earth, and everyone else is wrong;

· only cults forbid their members from reading other religious literature, especially that written by former members of the religion;

· only cults use guilt to keep their members so busy with daily and weekly programs of study that they have no time to consider other views;

· only cults use fear to try to stop members from leaving by saying only members of their ?religion? will be saved.

Although I've no interest in defending religions, I think there are probably some that do not meet these criteria...

I just can't see all this suffering in the world not having a purpose and to say this miserable existence is all there is in the grand scheme of things is just too overwhelming for me.

It would certainly be nice to be able to believe that.

Thank you,

Ken

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Amazing,

I still believe in God ... but beyond that, my faith, religious view, opinions, and all that are in total disarray ... ready for complete and total overhaul and rehabilitation.

Join the club: or should I join yours?!

Thanks,

Ken

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Nosferatu,

I believe in myself

Do you mind me asking how you reached this conclusion?

Regards,

Ken

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happehanna

do you remember some years ago they (that is wtbts) talked about "perma-frost" of the brain it was like a double bluff...............

I only vaguely remembered something about it, so checked in WT Library. Was this what you had in mind?

17 Permafrost well illustrates the situation of one whose mental powers are not actively involved with taking in, remembering, and using accurate knowledge. (Compare Matthew 13:5, 20, 21.) The person likely has the mental capacity to learn various subjects, including Bible truth. He studied "the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God" and may have qualified to be baptized, as did those Hebrew Christians. He might, though, not "press on to maturity," to things beyond "the primary doctrine about the Christ."?Hebrews 5:12; 6:1. (w93 8/15 15)

but does it really matter what any of of believes ??????

I suppose we all want answers to questions, the knack is knowing who to ask...

Regards,

Ken

Euphemism

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Any suggestions?

Well, I skimmed through Hans Kung's Does God Exist?, which is pretty much a survey of all the philosophers that Narkissos mentioned.

It's a pretty heavy duty read, however; not only is the topic deep, but Kung is a very dry writer.

If you're interested in a more accessible discussion, I'm afraid that I have no specific suggestions. I would recommend that you look in the library catalog under 'theism' and 'atheism', to find books on both viewpoints. You'll also find a lot of stuff on the 'net just searching for keywords like "existence of God" and "atheism" (although you should be sure to keep your BS detector active!).

If you're interested in the argument by design, rather than more abstract arguments, then you may want to read Behe's Darwin's Black Box for the theist viewpoint, and Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker for the atheist.

ThiChi

I am glad you are not throwing out the baby with the bath water. I am still a Christian and encourage you to keep the faith. Christianity is under attack on many levels. I encourage you to speak with men of Faith in your area, and read all viewpoints of the matter....

happehanna

I do believe in creation that is one thing I know for sure.

so then do I believe in a Creator, or do I believe in Creators?

Really as Jw's we believed in Creators ie both Jesus and God himself.

but then why were we created? One question leads to another and another......

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Narkissos,

Realistically, I don't.

I've a horrible feeling I may end up reaching the same conclusion, though I'd far prefer it would be otherwise...
Why "horrible"? How can you know what it is like being an atheist?

I said 'horrible' because I would really like to be able to prove to myself, beyond all reasonable doubt, that there is a God, and that He has a Grand Plan for man, earth, the universe and everything, and that the Bible is His Word and that I haven't wasted the last half-century of my life...

But to me admitting I didn't believe in "God" anymore was not "losing faith" at all. It was rather "walking by faith", as it were, on an unexpected path.

I think I know what you mean.

Check any recent critical Bible introduction (from a non-fundamentalist Bible edition for example): you will realize the process of writing the texts which now make up the Old Testament hardly began before the 8th century BC, and that all the former texts were subject to monotheistic rewriting after the Babylonian exile (6th century BC). Still the old polytheistic view, in which Yhwh is just one god among many others, show in many places...

Interesting, do you have any suggestions for a "recent critical Bible introduction"?

I attended the Pioneer School too instead of going to college, but there's still plenty of time to read when you're out!

Precisely! You know, one of the things I'm really enjoying at the moment is reading novels, that I never had time to read before.

I suggest his masterpiece Thus spake Zarathoustra (very Gospel-like in style), and also the provocative The Antichrist as an introduction to Nietzsche's thinking.

Thank you very much, I'll look into them.

The classical, metaphysical "proofs" of God's existence have been developed by a number middle-age Church Doctors such as St. Anselm or St. Thomas. After the collapse of metaphysics, many attempts have been made at giving a new base for "God". Epistemological in Descartes' Discours de la méthode, moral in Kant's Practical Reason... For one time I was quite fond of Kierkegaard's paradoxical view of God, or Emmanuel Lévinas' humanistic and poetical vision of "God" as the "other's face"...

Brilliant, thank you. I suspect I'll have no shortage of reading for some time to come...

However, I came to realize the definitions of "God" I was mostly attracted to didn't suit the common meaning of the word "God" -- so I finally preferred to confess my atheism, while feeling free to refer to "God" (or "gods") as a metaphor...

I don't understand your use again of being 'attracted to' one definition or another. Do you mean that, at the end of all your own reading, for you it all boiled down to your own personal preference?

Thank you for your very helpful suggestions.

Regards,

Ken

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stillajwexelder,

I have read around the subject of God and religion in the last few years that I now question everything -- and that I am afraid includes the existence of God

Thanks.

May I ask what you read that led you in that direction?

Regards,

Ken

Do you still believe in God?

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