Why I Will No Longer Be Flying the "Friendly Skies"

by SanFranciscoJim 44 Replies latest social current

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Of course I was gonna comment.

    Even if he IS guilty of seeking a dirty bomb, when the United States stoops to the level of razing the fundamental rights our forefathers intended for it's citizens as provided in the Constitution... we have already lost. Our forefathers (and our foremothers) never envisioned a world like we live in, or the terrorism that has brought this about.

    How many civil rights are we as a nation of citizens with inherent rights willing to sacrifice for the sake of feeling a little more secure because the government claims to be tightening the noose on terror? Which specific rights have you sacraficed again?

  • TresHappy
    TresHappy

    I believe if a terrorist attempts to take over a plane again, all the passengers will descend upon it and stop it. I will fly when I have to...it's just a scary world we live in these days!

  • Sara Annie
    Sara Annie

    I guess I just can't get overexcited about giving out information that is accessible to just about anyone with half a mind to find it. While I mourn the deterioration of fundamental freedoms, I also attempt to keep some perspective on the situation.

    We would do well to remember that our constitution is an active document that can and MUST change with the times. As our world evolves, so it must too. The particulars can be strengthened and alterered and have been in the past. I imagine the outcry against constitutional alteration was just as strong prior to the abolition of slavery.

    This level of paranoia reminds me of all the people who were publicly up in arms about the security of any and all of our freedom and personal information prior to January 1, 2000. I can still hear people speaking on TV shows about how they cleaned out their bank accounts and tearfully talking about how they sold their vacation homes because society was going to collapse in a matter of months. People stockpiled food and supplies over NOTHING. Hell, we're STILL trying to eat through some of the things my brother's father in law had in his 'Y2K bunker' (what was the man going to do with the hundreds of gigantic cans of various foods and the 20 pounds bags of rice and flour? Give them to all the relatives and try not to look too stupid, that's what).

    I wish you luck and happiness with your air-travel boycott.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Question #1: Considering the sophistication of terrorist groups, I would suggest that datamining personal information is not the way to go, because of their abilities to successfully create false identities. Continuing to search all luggage, checked and carry-on, as well as air cargo, plus the visible presence of air marshalls on every flight would provide me with a lot more comfort than worrying about Joe Ticket Counter Employee taking my personal information home with him to do whatever with.

    You do make some excellent points. Data mining does seem pointless since a terrorist will get a fake ID anyway. Security has been beefed up since 9/11 and we haven't had another incident. So why are they continuing to add new security measures?

    Question #2: By great distances, I assume you mean within North America. I have driven coast to coast many times. It's a wonderful way to see this great nation, and allows one to stop along the way to drink in its rich scenery and history. Air travel gets you there, but there is no joy in the journey, and that's what life is supposed to be all about, isn't it?

    Ugh... I can't stand long drives. A 4 hour drive is fine, but 6 or 8 is unbearable. I'd rather pay for a flight.

    If you're talking about overseas.....well, I've always wanted to take a trans-atlantic cruise aboard the QE II.
    ...until they beef up the security on cruises and start requiring a DNA sample and a retina scan. Then you're gonna be stuck here in NA.
  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002
    Our forefathers (and our foremothers) never envisioned a world like we live in, or the terrorism that has brought this about.

    To your credit, perhaps they did not envision the current world environment, but allowing the rights of American citizens to be sacrificed and compromised and the subsequent bending of the Constitutiion is unacceptable. Detaining American citizens without charges and without trial for an indefinite period? This has happened, this is not disputable. Such course of action is unacceptable. This is not debatable.

    Which specific rights have you sacraficed again?

    On September 11, 2001 the United States was brutally attacked by terrorists. The immediate damage included the destruction of the World Trade Center and a wing of the Pentagon, as well as the deaths of thousands of people. Since that time, the Bush Administration, the United States Justice Department and the United States Congress have enacted a series of Executive Orders, regulations, and laws that have seriously undermined civil liberties, the checks and balances that are essential to the structure of our democratic government, and indeed, democracy itself.

    The Constitution of the United States separates the federal government into three distinct branches and provides a system of "checks and balances" that prevent any one branch of government from accumulating excessive power. The Executive branch, by using Executive Orders and emergency interim agency regulations as its tools of choice for combating terrorism, has deliberately chosen methodologies that are largely outside the purview of both the legislature and the judiciary. These Executive Orders and agency regulations violate the U.S. Constitution, the laws of the United States, and international and humanitarian law. As a result, the war on terror is largely being conducted by Executive fiat and the constitutional guarantees of both citizens and non-citizens alike have been seriously compromised.

    Additionally, the actions of the government have been shrouded in a cloak of secrecy that is incompatible with democratic government. Hundreds of non-citizens have been rounded up and detained, many for months, in violation of constitutional protections, judicial decisional authority and INS policy. The government has repeatedly resisted requests for information regarding the detainees by loved ones, lawyers and the press; it has denied detainees access to legal representatives; and has conducted its hearings in secret, in some cases denying the very existence of such hearings. In a democracy, the actions of the government must be transparent or our ability to vote on policies and the people who create those policies becomes meaningless.

    Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of the government's actions has been its attack on the Bill of Rights, the very cornerstone of our American democracy. The War on Terror has seriously compromised the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights of citizens and non-citizens alike. From the USA PATRIOT Act's over-broad definition of domestic terrorism, to the FBI's new powers of search and surveillance, to the indefinite detention of both citizens and non-citizens without formal charges, the principles of free speech, due process, and equal protection under the law have been seriously undermined.

    Finally, the United States' actions with regard to prisoners held at Camp Delta at the Guantanamo Bay naval station have been in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions. These prisoners are being held as "unlawful combatants," a term that has no meaning in international law. The government's disregard for international law can only serve to encourage other nations to act likewise and undermine the very War on Terrorism it seeks to fight.

    The result of all of these actions has been the deliberate, persistent, and unnecssary erosion of the basic rights that protect every citizen and non-citizen in the United States. A free society demands the rule of law. Without it, democracy is meaningless. The government has consistently refused to recognize the protections afforded by the US Constitution and international law, and in doing so, it has failed in its responsibility to maintain a democratic society that is both open to, and accountable to, the people.

    http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/whatsnew/report.asp?ObjID=nQdbIRkDgG&Content=153

    Educate yourself. The FBI can go to any library and seek information on United States citizens without the knowledge of the individual. Librarians have revolted against this action. Taps can be made on VOIP (voice over Internet protocol) conversations via computer without warrant, if the FBI claims it is to counter terrorism. American citizens can be jailed without charges filed (and subsequently denied their rights) against them if they are alleged (truthfully or untruthfully) to be terrorists. Jose Padilla is but one example of this. You can rant and make your excuses, but the facts stare you in the face. The United States progresses more towards a disgusting mix of an Orwellian state of Big Brotherhood and a nation eroding civil liberties as time progresses. I for one am disgusted by it, and if it continues much further, will exercise my right to LEAVE this country, especially if Bush is re-elected.

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome
    I for one am disgusted by it, and if it continues much further, will exercise my right to LEAVE this country, especially if Bush is re-elected.

    dont come here and live in Blair's Britain Reborn, as the same thing is being pushed through our parliament. and considering the political 'labeling' that happens on this board by the 'neo-cons', isnt it interesting that the same facist orwellian legislastion is being pushed through by the Labour Party, you know, those LOONEY LEFTIES? just goes to show how much of a difference there is between Left and Right.

    Legalizing Nazi-Style Concentration Camp Laws: Amendment to CCB Bill Would Detain UK Citizens Without Trial: http://www.prisonplanet.com/011104withouttrial.html

    Big Brother Britain, 2004: More than four million surveillance cameras monitor our every move, making Britain the most-watched nation in the world, research has revealed. http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=480364

    Homeland Security officials deny that CAPPS II will be merged with another program that fingerprints and photographs visitors to the United States. in other words, it will be. http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61891,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim
    Ugh... I can't stand long drives. A 4 hour drive is fine, but 6 or 8 is unbearable. I'd rather pay for a flight.

    Another option is the train. To my knowledge, CAPPS II is not being applied at Amtrak (yet). Some Amtrak services even allow for your car to travel with you if you're not up to a long drive to get where you're going. I haven't done a train in years. Sounds like fun, actually. (Shades of North By Northwest!)

  • Princess
    Princess
    If that's what it takes to keep my identity from being stolen, then the cave it is! I have a friend on Long Island, New York who had his identity stolen by an employee at a rental car agency. His credit was destroyed, and it's taken him years to repair it. I'll bet he wishes he had joined me in that "cave".

    I sympathise. I had a credit card number stolen last summer and just had the last charge removed last week. It sucks to have this happen to you but you have to go on living. I realize mine was on a much smaller scale but still, it's upsetting when you give the detective the thief's name and phone number and they still say it's not worth their time to pursue it.

    Still, if you crawl in the cave, they have won and you lose.

    PS, train travel sucks too.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    I'm with Princess on this one. It's a minor irritation to have all those little cards on my key ring, but I don't care at all if they track what I buy. I'm not hiding anything.

    Anything they do to make air travel safer is okay with me. I just don't mind a bit.

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    One point about information that I think makes sense is verifying that the person who checks-in is the person that purchased the airline ticket. I believe that security checks can be streamlined and focused. I fly relatively frequently, I buy return tickets billed to either a personal or a corporate credit card. I make my flights, I often check baggage, I sometimes fly with family members and I collect and use airmiles. I am different to the young man who turns up with a paper ticket for a one way flight paid for by cash. Who do you think should be subject to closer scrutiny? Where should the TSA be focused?

    Proving that my ID is not fake is the key question. An airline does not need to have either my image or my fingerprint on file. If my ID card contains an electronic version of my image and of my fingerprint that the airline system can check and verify that information against my own face and fingerprint then that information stays with me and the issuer of the card. My greencard already contains both my fingerprint and image.

    3rd

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