Islam is a religion of peace (2)

by Coded Logic 80 Replies latest social current

  • Ruby456

    have you been taking lessons from cedars?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    isis fighters are criminals - they're more than just criminals.

    They're criminals that rule over chunks of land in Syria and Iraq.

    They're criminals that therefore escape state-sanctioned punishment because they run their areas of land like a state, and their state approves their actions. They're criminals who claim to be Muslim and pray at local mosques, reading from the Quran. They're criminals who claim to follow the example of Muhammad.

    I said it before and I'll say it again: there's no current movement to compare Islamic terrorist groups to.

  • barry

    Islam is a religion of Peace but at what price? According to Islamists when Dar -Al -

    Harb meaning the house of war or non muslim governments are defeated and the kalifat is established peace will cover the whole earth.

    According to the pew research Islamists have beliefs which in any western context are quite alarming. EG in favour of making sharia the law of the land Malaysia 86% Egypt 74%. Should sharia apply to non muslims Malaysia 41% Egypt 74%. Death for leaving islam Egypt 86% Indonesia 18% [ Indonesia admittedly a more reasonable figure but it would be high figure at my Anglican church where the figure would be somewhere between 0 and nothing for leaving christianity]

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    Scholars also, after in depth research, do not think Islam is responsible for any more violence than other religions/cultures/ states.
    - Ruby456

    If we're going to have a productive conversation I'm going to have to insist you be a little more disciplined in the use of your terms.

    We're discussing the fact that the behavior of a jihadist in gay bars in the US or newspapers in France is not that far removed from what orthodox Muslims advocate and practice in many parts of the world. Killing homosexuals and murdering infidels is the norm. And if you're just going to redefine the word "violence" so that anything that is sanctioned by the state is swept under the rug we're not going to be able to have a meaningful discussion here.

    Muslims are motivated by their religion to kill people who don't follow their religion. And they have brutal punishments for petty crimes - like chopping off the hands of shoplifters.

    Under your use of the term we could say that crime was very low under the Third Reich - as it is under most brutal authoritarian governments. But that doesn't mean that it was a good system of government. Or that the people who are advocating these barbaric punishments are somehow behaving in ways that are "less violent".

  • Ruby456

    Is the crime rate lower in authoritarian regimes?

    M. Steven Fish deals with this question very well in his book and says if only it were true that crime rates go down with such regimes then that would explain why homicide rates are lower in Muslim majority states. His evidence indicates that crime rates generally go up under authoritarian regimes yet in Muslim majority countries they are way way lower than non Muslim states despite many Muslim states being authoritarian. also how would we explain the homicide rate going down in areas that have large Muslim populations in western states?

    I can dig out his painstaking search of the evidence.

    btw I am not saying authoritarian regimes are good or any such thing. I am trying to withhold judgement - if I have not done so or have given the impression that I have made judgements then I apologize. My aim has been to be descriptive and inquiring and to generate understanding in view of the huge Islamophobia Muslims (particularly women) experience. I have also experienced this as I have been mistaken for being Muslim. Btw I really liked your placard.

  • Ruby456

    regarding homosexuality - what Muslims are against (as Dr. Raham points out) is that Muslims do not see gay identity as being essentialist. they think that gayness is part of a part of a person and they object to homosexuality as an identity. Thus as you have seen Mateen was very conflicted and his father keeps saying but he has a child he is married.

    The crimes he committed were atrocious and my heart goes out to families of his victims and their communities.

  • WhatshallIcallmyself

    When crimes, such as honour killings, go unreported to the secular authorities it is fairly obvious that official figures will not give an accurate representation of reality.

  • TimeBandit

    Islam is a bucket of piss for rats to drown in...It is certainly not a religion of peace in my opinion. Look at the news and see for yourself.


  • Ruby456

    whatshallicallmyslef you said

    When crimes, such as honour killings, go unreported to the secular authorities it is fairly obvious that official figures will not give an accurate representation of reality.

    one would think so. But I am truly startled to discover that states in developed non Muslim lands (i am trying to avoid saying christian majority states here as my impression is that I shouldn't compare Muslims and Christians) are putting hyper-vigilant focus on Muslims to cover over their own neglects and over time this has resulted in our developing a kind of common sense view that it is a fact that honour killings happen a lot amongst Muslims and that as you say they may be unreported.

    However, honour killings are public knowledge - if they were kept secret how would one gain honour?

    secondly murder rates are very very high in developed non Muslim states and far far more frequent than honour killings and it is this that accounts for the stats.

    I want to clarify that murders in non muslim majority states seem to have much more to do with capitalism particularly in its neoliberal form (and the rivalries and feelings of insecurity and disadvantage it seems to produce if you do not have a lot of money) than with Christianity

    (sources from open university uk - my new source not already mentioned is Honour Killing and Violence Editors: K. Gill, Aisha, Strange, C., Roberts, K. (Eds.) )

  • Ruby456

    honour killings are a terrible crime against women and soemthing needs to be done to eradicate this practice worldwide

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