Avi-I'm talking about heavy drinking as it stands alone (or in conjunction with going to bars). Of all the cases of disfellowshipping that involved drinking, there was always some other conduct besides the drinking involved that together resulted in the disfellowshipping (like a snort of coke, or a cigarette, or a drunken driving arrest, or a roll in the hay, or disturbing the peace arrests, etc.). If possible, can you elaborate on the case/s that were simply an occurrence of heavy drinking and disfellowshipping-how did it come out, how many people were involved, where did it occur, was it habitual or a one time thing...etc. Thanks, Shoshana
JW's and Pubs/Bars
by Heatmiser 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Mysterious
I think a lot of times they mostly frown on the worldy association. Like going to bars or pubs to hang out with non-witnesses. But I guess it would be less objectionable if they went in a big group.
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avishai
If possible, can you elaborate on the case/s that were simply an occurrence of heavy drinking and disfellowshipping-how did it come out, how many people were involved, where did it occur, was it habitual or a one time thing...etc. Thanks, Shoshana
One person was involved, they drank nightly, though not before meetings, to a point were they'd pass out in their chair pretty much all the time. They could'nt stop on their own, even though te elders "told" them too. No other conduct was involved, the guy pretty much drank while watching tv, did'nt get mean or silly, just turbo-smashed.
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La Capra
Yeah, I've heard of the boot for habitual drunkeness...poor sob-he either turned himself in, or a beloved family member aimed the shoe at his butt by turning him in. They at least gave him a chance to stop drinking, before slamming the door on him-not that I condone shunning for clearly uncontrollable problems. This situation fits in with my experience concerning bars, alcohol abuse, and heavy drinking-and JWs in Northern California. Thanks, Shoshana.
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Thirdson
I heard that several of the local elders were of the opinion that best elder's meetings were held in the local pub. Outside of the decorum of the KH and with alcohol to loosen tongues they really could say what they felt. (It's sort of the same reason why Japanese business is often conducted in bars and clubs.)
Going to pubs was never a DF offense. Culturally, in the UK a pub is a place to get a drink and a meal. The smokey atmosphere and the "bad association" might cause some to frown on the practice of others but I frequented pubs from age 18 onwards and often met up with other dubs in pubs. One of the things I miss about the UK (other than a good curry) is having a lunchtime drink and a bite to eat in a country pub on Saturdays. I don't often sit in the bar at a restaurant but will if I have to wait more than a couple of minutes for a table. I will eat and drink in a bar when alone on business. I occasionally have a drink at the sports bar across the road from where I work with colleagues. I have never has a twinge of guilt entering a pub or bar even as a JW. I do find the UK and French practice of having a drink over lunch in the work week strange after living in the US for a while now. I did visit a private club in Tokyo recently where the waitresses wore Playboy bunny outfits, that was an eye-opener, literally. If I were a Dub I would have just kept it a secret.
Thirdson
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Yerusalyim
If drinking were a DF offense...DA JUDGE would have been in trouble...
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Country Girl
In our ethnic group, dancing is a large part of the culture. One of the brothers in our hall who was annointed ran a bar/restaurant that catered to our particular ethnic group. Our Father, who was not a JW, took us there frequently. He was the drinker, but the rest of us, including our JW mother, danced and enjoyed the food and being with others like us. My JW mother also drank there, but not to excess! She also accompanied my Father to Las Vegas, where she hung out with him at the casinos and they both drank. Admittedly, she was always more liberal than most of the JW's, but she was not looked down upon in the congregation for it. She was and is a very respected pioneer sister.
CG
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seesthesky
La Capra - r u a JW? And what law school do u go to and what year u in?
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undercover
Going to pubs/bars is not a DFing offense. Going to them often is a sign of spiritual weakness. Remember the recurring WTs that kept hounding everyone about the pitfalls of materialism and worldly associates? They would have illustrations to empasize the point. A picture of an expensive car represented materialism. A picture of a person or a couple having a drink at a bar represented being too worldly or putting emphasis on recreation, all bad things. So since even though it's not a DFing offense they present it as something that is displeasing to God and should be avoided.
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Englishman
Undercover,
I remember when owning a TV was considered to be a sign of weakness and immaturity. In our congregation the Bible study servant got a TV and was considered to be very dodgy as a result.
Englishman.