Anointed Class? What Anointed Class?

by never_a_jw 64 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  AGuest

  As none of them can prove they're right, and as it would be morally repugnant of an entity to blot people out because they didn't believe something that wasn't provable (and that other people with the same amount of evidence disputed), I think we can sleep safe in our beds tonoght knowing that, thankfully, whatever god is, these three people don't know $hit about it.

  You are correct: I cannot prove that I am "right"... for I am not and have never said I was. Never will. For it is not about me OR my "righteousness." I am no better than anyone else here... or anywhere else. That I don't "know $hit about... whatever god is," however... is incorrect. Totally.

  God... IS... love. And THAT... I can prove. For it is by my own "works" OF love... that such is proven. To myself, if not to those who observe such works. For it is only by means of His spirit that I can and do love.

  Previously, I THOUGHT I loved... thought I knew what it was... and how to manifest it. Usually, that meant being "nice." I have since learned that it means truly doing "unto others"... whether physically or spiritually... without regard or expectation of repayment. Doing so because one WANTS to... versus because one is compelled to... whether by societal dictations or fear of death/destruction.

  I know God exists... dear Abaddon... because I exist. And I know God is love... because now... I know love BECAUSE of God. Unfortunately... or perhaps fortunately... for ME... I did not learn it from my parents. I did not learn it from my children. I did not learn it from my neighbors, my teachers... or any other human being. I learned various FORMS of love... but not TRUE love. For TRUE love... has no boundaries... and is against no law.

  I learned this... by means of my oneness with God, through Christ. For it is as my Lord said - I remain in union with God, by remaining in union with him... so that apart from him... I can do nothing (good)... in and of myself. While you and others may not accept this as truth about me or yourselves... I absolutely know it to be true. Because I know ME... my TRUE self... and that "one"... wouldn't really give a damn about a lot of things and a lot of people. Truly. Because to do so would require more effort that I would care to give.

  But... in learning GOD's love... I have learned to give more than just a damn; I have learned to love... even my enemies. Praise JAH, then, that HIS spirit (of love) has been granted me so that I am NOT "myself"... and thus condemned to be judged according to what I WOULD judge, had I not learned love... but I am what He, through Christ, has taught me to be. Oh, the FREEDOM!!!

  I bid you the greatest of love, dear Abaddon... and peace. Truly.

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  Earnest

  In the meantime I found this...just for our amusement!!! - JCanon, 30-Dec-03 13:40 GMT

  The Scottish connection in the Watchtower Society is overpowering. Both the Russell and the Rutherford families came from Scotland as well as MacMillan and many other key eariy Watchtower leaders. - The Watchtower & the Illuminati, January 1994 newsletter, Fritz Springmeier

  Hi JCanon,

  In the same newsletter Springmeier explains :

  In the 1820?s Alexander G. Russell [CTR's uncle] went to New York City and then onto Orange Co., NY. He could write firsthand how good it was. When the Potato famine hit during the 1820s, the Russells did not have the roots to Ireland that the original Irish had, and the rest of the family moved to America, except for Fannie?s husband Alexander Harper [Fannie Harper (nee Russell) was CTR's aunt], who stayed behind in Donegal estranged from his wife.

  The Irish famine was a cause of mass migration to the States so the fact that many of the early Watchtower leaders were Scottish is hardly evidence of a conspiracy (The migration of 100,000+ Scots to Northern Ireland took place in the seventeenth century). However, it may be that the elder arrangement and some of the beliefs attracted those with a Presbyterian background.

  Masons Rutherford and Russell [both Jews] started Jehovah Witnesses' in order to spread Judaism throughout the world under the guise of Christianity. - Quote 696, 1000 Quotes By and About Jews, Radio Islam

  As you say, regarding this quotation, "You'll have to put this reference in context though. It's from an Islamic source...anti-Semitic, generally and anti-Freemasonry." In fact, the original source of this quotation is a man by the name of Willie Martin, a member of a white supremacist group called Christian Identity, who also provides no evidence for his assertion but probably (imo) got it from Springmeier, a member of the Christian Patriot Association. He (Willie Martin) also says in the same diatribe :

  The prerequisite qualifications to serve in the [American] administration, demands that you first be pro-Zionist, and that you be an immoral, perverted, degenerate, deviate, reprobate, depraved criminal pawn of the Jews. Never in the history of the United States has the government as tainted as it has been under the administrations of Woodrow Wilson (a Jew), Franklin Roosevelt (a Jew), Dwight Eisenhower (a Jew), Lyndon Johnson (a Jew), Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush Sr. (a Jew), William Clinton, and George W. Bush Jr. (a Jew).

  It would seem that Rutherford and Russell are in good company.

  Earnest
• 

  JCanon

  Hi Earnest, thanks for the extra references. It is scarry how "circular" the references get sometimes. Somebody quotes somebody else and so forth and then you end up quoting yourself.

  Not to belabor this, but I tend to check ALL the references with different levels of criteria. I think we all do. It makes a difference who you ask, say, about America, depending upon what information you want. Obviously blacks and Native American Indians (Amerindians) will have a different view of the country than wealthy stock market kings. Some information you only expect to get from the enemy. For instance, if you wanted to find out about the false teachings of JWs, you don't go to the Watchtower, you google AlanF, etc. So when I want to find out about white supremacists I don't go to them but to the Jews, and visa versa. It's a toss-up, therefore, whether the truth is jsut being sensationalized or whether it's pure ficture. Case in point, is Russell/Rutherford denying their Jewish heritage or claiming otherwise? Where's that part of the research.

  JC.
• 

  Abaddon

  LT: You're a Calvinist? Really? I'm the pope, how-do-you-do?

  I am assuming that isn't serious; being a nice Christian andbeing a Calvanist are pretty much impossible to do at the same time, as the doctrine of predestination essentially runs along the lines of "If you're ?ucked, you're ?ucked and there's nothing you can do about it"

  Merry Christmas to you!

  AGuest; see? You might experience things that you can't actually prove happens, but fundamentally you are a good person. Happy New Year.

  JCanon; Hey Mr. Jesus, playing "ignore-anything-that-conflicts-with-my-dellusion-don't -answer-nasty-man-who-says-I'm-mad-and-tells-me-what my-doctor-tells-me". Try sticking your hands over you eyes if you want to hide from reality; it might make surfing the net impossible, but, hey, would that be a loss to humanity that humanity would just have to cope with, eh?

  I just wanted you to run some of your divine drivel er, wisdom... past us again; if we decide you're not Jesus on the basis of you being 1/ a delusional schizophrenic, 2/ clueless, and 3/ generally an unfettered egoist who gets off on the idea of the 'wicked' (which you of course define, being Jesus) being destroyed underneath your sandals of wrath, then this is all according to loving god's plan of making Christ a stumbling block, and nothing to do with you being an a$$hole?

  Oh, yes, of course, I'm persecuting you, which means in deluso-word (your head) that you are RIGHT. Yes, quite; hahahahahahaha...

  So, if anyone saying someone is a false christ because they don't show the correct fruits is proof that the false christ is real (which is the situation here, according to you), then... how do we know which of the false christs is real? You can't prove yourself different from any others, yet to you this proves something other than your need of professional help! Get a grip.

  Earnest; Playing with mad man in anyway which indicates you think they might be taking them seriously just allows them to sustain their delusions with even greater ease, and might possibly effect or delay him seeking treatment... unless of course you believe he's Jesus!

  I actualy have a friend who suffers from a less-severe delusion, I'm not doing this to be mean to him.

  It's very unlikely that he turned violent, but you never know when a delusion can switch from 'Christ in waiting' to 'Christ trampling the winepress of god's fury', which normally means some poor inocent gets hurt or killed.

  Unlikely, but if it happened before and will happen again.

  If it did "Oh, yes I was just chatting to him the day before about the ancestry of the founder of the JW's" is not something you'd own up to with a clear conscience.
• 

  LittleToe

  Abaddon:

  being a nice Christian andbeing a Calvanist are pretty much impossible to do at the same time, as the doctrine of predestination essentially runs along the lines of "If you're ?ucked, you're ?ucked and there's nothing you can do about it"

  No, really!
  Actually Calvin's own words on the matter were a little more tolerant than that of Calvinists generally (and that rare breed known as hyper-calvinists).
  The one's I hang with are lovely people, and not in the same category of the spittle-lipped fundamentalists that seem to be reported on the the other side of the pond (not to say that there aren't that type here, too).

  The attitude is nearer to "we don't know if someone [is/will be] connected, so we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day God is our judge"

  Another quote, which I quite like is that of the Evangelist who claimed to be "an Armenian on his feet and a Calvinist on his knees"
• 

  Abaddon

  Hey LT:

  No, really!
  Actually Calvin's own words on the matter were a little more tolerant than that of Calvinists generally (and that rare breed known as hyper-calvinists).

  I was thinking of Calvanism as has been displayed by Calvanists I have encountered, and specifically of the presuppositionalistic nature of the belief and the doctrine of predesination.

  I've not encountered any UK Calvanists, I just live in a country where the less fun aspects of society are shaped by a very dour Calvanistic view of life, and have had many words (pointless as they are right because they say they are right) with "spittle-lipped fundamentalists that seem to be reported on the the other side of the pond he the other side of the pond".

  Another quote, which I quite like is that of the Evangelist who claimed to be "an Armenian on his feet and a Calvinist on his knees

  ... and yet another human making Pascal's wager?

  For a bonus prize, what was god's intention in making the choice of what path to follow to one of irreducable complexity?

  As there seems to be no definative path (or a path that one could assume was definative without making assumptions or accepting assurances), is it true that all paths lead to god? Or do the people who have randomly guessed which is the right path win?

  If all paths lead to god, then surely religion is a parasite? Isn't being good enough? Or did God allow religion to develop to provide a useful income for the corrupt, the bone-idle, the power-hungry, and all the other people in religion who give the meek and holy in religion such a bad name?

  If so, why are some religions hard and some difficult?

  Why is the communication of god's message and the 'brand identity' of god worse than that of a product dealt with by a PR agent based on a 486DX33 running out of a bedsit in Clapham? Surely god could get the Saachi's in? Or Max Clifford?

  Or is it a case of all humans can be good but members of the Chippaquickdick Assembly of Seventh Day Hoppists are more good?

  If this is so, do the less good get to upgrade their post-life experience, or are they stuck in coachj class for eternity.

  oh, and my favourate... WHY is there no proof?

  Why is there always a convenient excuse? Why are people so eager to believe on the basis of eviddence they would not accept as good enough to justify the investment 5 grand?

  All these and the classic much much more are reasons why I feel religion is bunk.
• 

  LittleToe

  Abaddon:
  I have the feeling this is going to be a looong post, which isn't my usual style, but I feel like living a little
  All that follows is my humble opininon:

  ... and yet another human making Pascal's wager?

  In the face of the wealth of anecdotal evidence that there is a Divine to connect to, it doesn't seem unreasonable.

  For a bonus prize, what was god's intention in making the choice of what path to follow to one of irreducable complexity?

  Ah, that would be a religious perspective, again.
  What's so complex about simply connecting to the Divine any way you can?

  ...is it true that all paths lead to god?

  Dunno. It'd be nice, huh?
  You're reading a book at the moment that suggests that may be possible

  Or do the people who have randomly guessed which is the right path win?

  I guess that would depend on whether or not God actually makes first contact. If that is the case, then it's not as random as it would seem.

  If all paths lead to god, then surely religion is a parasite?

  Sure, they can all be abused, and for that reason I hate religion for it's own sake. Yet, in it's proper place I believe it has a function.

  Isn't being good enough?

  By who's standard?
  Though taking this a step further Rom.14:14 makes interesting reading, in support of the "we judge ourselves" doctrine.

  Or did God allow religion to develop to provide a useful income for the corrupt, the bone-idle, the power-hungry, and all the other people in religion who give the meek and holy in religion such a bad name?

  Maybe they'll get theirs. Jesus didn't condemn religious practices, so much, as "hypocrites", you'll recall.

  If so, why are some religions hard and some difficult?

  Variety is the spice of life? Different strokes for different folks?

  Why is the communication of god's message and the 'brand identity' of god worse than that of a product dealt with by a PR agent based on a 486DX33 running out of a bedsit in Clapham? Surely god could get the Saachi's in? Or Max Clifford?

  Maybe we're just very good at missing the point, if the point is merely to connect to God sometime, somehow, during the course of the pilgrimage we call life.

  Or is it a case of all humans can be good but members of the Chippaquickdick Assembly of Seventh Day Hoppists are more good?

  If this is so, do the less good get to upgrade their post-life experience, or are they stuck in coachj class for eternity.

  If life is a gift (this life or the next) who are we to declare that there are classes?
  In John's vision it seems everyone was together.
  Even Christ refuted the idea of seeking a higher station, especially through self-righteousnes.
  If there are classes, maybe the Salvation Army will be ahead of the game, in Christian circles.
  I don't think it's just the modern age that invented equality. It seems to me that the NT refers to there being no gender or race discrimination in heaven.

  oh, and my favourate... WHY is there no proof?

  Proof is in the eye of the beholder.
  One man's meat is another man's poison.

  Why is there always a convenient excuse? Why are people so eager to believe on the basis of eviddence they would not accept as good enough to justify the investment 5 grand?

  I'd stake my life on it, as many before me have.
  Is there anything in life you'd stake your life on?

  All these and the classic much much more are reasons why I feel religion is bunk

  Me too, but then I differentiate between religion and spirituality.

  Just a few views. I hope it helps you understand my perspective.
  As usual, I enjoy your posts. Thought provoking, albeit occasionally confrontational/caustic
• 

  badboy

  Interestin that in the latest(January 1 2004) WT,it say they were 72,475 reported christian in 1939,did 72,000 of the anointed died in the mean time(1935-1939)
• 

  LittleToe

  Add to that the 140,000 martyred by Nero...
• 

  badboy

  Little Toe,what happened abt that paedophile exiled 2 barra.