Why do the JW's not Believe in Hell?

by Tirisilex 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    When Christ went up to Heaven after 40 days he took all the good souls with him because the way to Heaven became opened. Read in the book of Matthew when the curtain ripped when Christ died, read all the way thur. Talks about the holy people in the tombs getting there New bodies Matt. Cha 27 vs 51-52 NIV Bible. For us now we have to wait for the Rapture to get are New bodies.

    I have to disagree with you here. There is nothing in the ascension stories (Mark 16:19; Luke 24:50-53; John 20:17-18; Acts 1:6-11; 1 Timothy 3:16) that suggests that Jesus took to heaven the newly-resurrected righteous dead. In fact, the statement in Matthew (which doesn't refer to any ascension of these resurrected ones) directly contradicts Paul's doctrine on the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 states: "But Christ has in fact been raised from the dead, the first-fruits of all who have fallen asleep. Death came through one man and in the same way the resurrection of the dead has come through one man. Just as all men die in Adam, so all men will be brought to life in Christ; but all of them in their proper order: Christ as the first-fruits and then, after the coming of Christ, those who belong to him." Matthew 27:51-52, by stating that "the bodies of many holy men rose from the dead" at the same time the veil in the Temple was rent, suggests that the resurrection of the righteous happened before Jesus was resurrected -- in fact, at the very moment he died. Here the "proper order" is reversed. Paul believes that "all who have fallen asleep", "all [who] die in Adam" (whom he equates with those "dead in Christ," since they have been redeemed by Him) would rise at Christ's return. This is the same view expressed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where those "dead in Christ" (presumably all who have been redeemed by Christ) "will be the first to rise" at Christ's second coming. 2 Timothy 2:18 (of the Paulinist school) specifically refutes the notion that "the resurrection has already taken place."

    So what's the deal with Matthew's narrative? It is important to note that this story about the holy ones rising from the dead was a Matthean addition to the original Markan account. This story is absent in Mark 15:38, and it doesn't appear in the Lukan version of the account (Luke 23:45). In fact, other early gospels based on the same crucifixion narrative also omit any mention of this resurrection but mention the splitting of the temple veil (cf. Gospel of Peter 5:15-20; Gospel of the Nazoreans, Fr. 21, 36; Acts of Pilate 11:1-3). Now this in itself is quite remarkable since the resurrection of the holy ones would have been an awesome event, even more so than the tear in the temple veil, yet it is nowhere mentioned by Mark, Luke, John, or any other gospel except of Matthew and later versions of Matthew.

    Furthermore, it is fairly certain that the account in Matthew has been altered in its wording. The biggest problem are the words "after his resurrection", which -- most bizarrely -- delays the appearance of those resurrected for three days (Matthew 27:53). This totally defeats the whole purpose of having them raised when Jesus dies on the cross as something that led the centurion to confess Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 27:54). The centurion certainly could not have been awed by their resurrection if the resurrected dead did not leave their tombs! The delay however does bring the canonical account into line (partially) with Pauline theology, which proclaims Jesus as the "first fruits" of the resurrection. For Paul, the "saints" could not arise before Jesus himself has risen. Yet the gloss fails to bring Matthew fully into line with Pauline theology since the bodily resurrection of the righteous dead still takes place before Jesus.

    There is actual textual evidence that the text in Matthew has been altered. One of its earliest witnesses was the Diatesseron, a gospel harmony produced by Tatian at the end of the 2nd century. This harmony was in turn based on the one produced by Justin Martyr several decades earlier. The Pepysian Harmony and the Ephrem Commentary both attest the Diatessaron reading as follows:

    And with that, the veil that hung in the temple before the high altar burst in two pieces, the earth quaked, and the stones burst, and the dead men arose out of their graves. And entering the holy city, they appeared to many. And the centurion and those with him, who stood facing Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, and said with awe, "Truly this was the Son of God!"

    Here the gloss does not appear and the appearance of the risen dead in Jerusalem occurs at the same time as Jesus' death and was witnessed by the centurion. This reading makes better sense with the context. It also lacks the greater detail of the canonical account in this passage -- all of which is theologically loaded: "bodies" (more specific and agreeing with Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:35-44), "of saints" (certainly superior to the mere "dead" of the Diatessaron, and therefore more developed, and also Pauline), "who had fallen asleep" (again a more elegant description, and again used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:20 and 1 Thessalonians 4:14). All this suggests that the Diatessaron's reading is earlier and preserves a more primitive version of the text than does the canonical text, which has been revised to bring it into conformity with Pauline theology.

    So what we have here is a geniunely independent account in Matthew, and one that presents a different theory of the resurrection than that of Paul. I would therefore not combine it with Paul's doctrine on the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians to produce an explanation of how those righteous men of old could be redeemed and resurrected by Christ's ransom. The story presented by Matthew is an later addition of his (drawn probably from lore of oral tradition) and not a likely report of a historical event.

    Leolaia

  • Tirisilex
    Tirisilex

    Leolaia,

    Your answers are fantastic. I wish I could put in the time to make such answers. I find myself spread a bit thin because I try to study many religions. I'm a part of 10 different message boards each of different religious faiths. I hope that someday I can give such answers not only in Christ based Doctrines but in all the others that I find interest in.. Your an inspiration to me.. thank you..

  • worldlygirl
    worldlygirl

    They don't believe in hell because it's a nice pitch to get new recruits/converts/magazine salesmen.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    Do you Really think those here aren't tormented

    No. Many are - it's even a common reason for being here - but the hope is for relief from the hell that others have led them into.

    They're both there, those who made it and those who were lead in - but those who prefer what is true at least have the hope of leaving, even through the weeping and gnashing - those who don't remain with the niggling worms and unquenched desires.

    "There is no hell" is just the total jw hoodwinking, like "We are the truth!"

    • We are the truth (it's actually lies)
    • We are the happiest people on earth (you'd best appear that way)
    • We are the most christian people on earth (we don't even have charities)
    • There is no hell (it actually is hell)
    Those in it havent learned one thing other than that God is a Hateful and spiteful God.

    And so the fire remains unquenched. I'm very suprised by the attitude of ex-jws, even after all they have been fed - to either agree with the wt or otherwise blame God for what the wt does - the hoodwinking is still going on.

  • archangel01
    archangel01

    Leolaia,

    Thanks for the info. I'm still learning an don't know everything. There are alot of things in the Bible we just don't know but are great to talk about you know. Thanks alot I will read more on all this.

    to Nark: You can only serve one master not two just like Jesus said. One day you will have to make a choice if you haven't already. Who evr you pick then that's where you will go to be with, God In Heaven or Satan in Hell.Just please get into your Bible an do your research.

    God is Good it's not his fault that things are the way they are ,remember Man could of stopped all this from happening it they stayed away from that damn tree LOL. Ok things got messed up and this is Gods way of fixing it once an for all. It's all about trust, we don't know why God did it this way or that way. We just have to trust Him an say I don't understand it all but I trust you LORD that it will all work out for the better. Just like Hell/Judgement why is there a place like that. Well the Bible just said that it was perpared for Satan & his demons.An That sin puts you there, Thats what we are told from scripture. However God made away out for Everyone (Humans) But only Few find that way out which is faith in Jesus. Satan comes in an tries to prevent people from finding that light that way out. It's sad and I don't know all the facts and I feel for you, and if I came off the wrong way I'm sorry ok. I just tell it like it is no beating around the bush you know. He doesn't want people going to hell that's why he gave his only Son. But people think hell is not real an they make jokes an stuff, Satan is the one who is feeding people those lies. Now if those people who joked about Hell an stuff come to find out its Real (Which it is) then I bet you they would take back everything they said. Just read up on the people who will be in Hell. Gods word makes it clear what type of people who will be in Hell. Also, yes Hell is a lake of fire but it's also outer darkness, worn die not, Fire wind, different chambers etc.So Hell must be like a BIG PRISON with different levels an chambers rooms etc. Also there will be degrees of torment in Hell for things done in the flesh. Hell is for the Unsaved/ Unrepented

    Just do some Bible reading to Check these things out ok.

  • Tirisilex
    Tirisilex

    When I WAS a Christian I was sort of a fanatic.. I remember once I went out to the woods and Cried saying, "How can you let the road be wide? How can you just turn your back on them?"
    I know most Christians would say, "He didn't turn his back on them. They turned their backs on him."
    I chose to believe in God.. To ignore that which seemed a contradiction of his very spirit. I chose to believe what the church taught me about God because well.. God is God. However after a while I just couldnt keep ignoring such contradictions.
    I find it sad that I can find Christians holding onto Gods torment torment of Judgement and not provide educated Biblical facts. Like Leolaia for example. Their defense is something like, "God is God and thats all there is to it.. Hell is real because (My Pastor says so.) thats the way it is.
    In my opinion reading but one particular translation of the Bible and holding fast to that one book as the only true word of God is ludicrous. This is why I have like 7 diff versions of the Bible including the Hebrew and Greek Texts. I have 2 greek lexicons and 1 Hebrew. The Strongs Exauhstive Concordance (Which is incredible in my opinion.) And many books that were never canonized. A few books on Christian History and an assortment of other Christian writings. I think any serious "Christian" should have a similar assortment.. How else can one Truely know the word?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Tirisilex.....

    Message boards can be a full-time occupation, huh?

  • Tirisilex
    Tirisilex

    =o)

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Archangel,

    In case you don't know, I've been reading / studying / translating / editing / commenting the Bible for many years now. As a consequence of that, I'd never say: "The Bible says". Because I came to understand how different the texts which eventually were gathered into the Bible are, so there is no such thing as a "Bible message".

    However, if I had to choose between heaven and hell I'd certainly choose hell. Company's better, the best people are there.

    I don't know what Church you belong to, but if it is somewhat related to Calvinist teaching, you must know there is NO choice in fact: from eternity God has decided who was to accept his love and who wasn't. Loves everyone anyway. Screwy of screwies.

    Breathe: your life is here. It is not in a book, fascinating as it may be.

    Take care,

    Narkissos

  • Eyebrow2
    Eyebrow2

    You know, I sorta of hope the rapture is true...because there sure are a HELL of a lot of baptists down here in Texas, and when that day comes there will be a lot of available trucks with hemis, Lexuses and other really nice vehicles on the side of the road, just waiting for me to pick one.

    And I think the guy across the street with the pool will be gone too...we can have an Apostafest pool party!!!

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